Multimaster Copy?

[Andy Dingley]

Yes, that;'s easy. And if your delta sander oscillates with any sort of linear motion, rather than pure rotation, then you won't be able to control it. BTDT 8-)

[Frank Erskine]

>>> Wonder

New ideas are what profiteering is all about.

I do like Bosch stuff (I buy a lot of their products (in various spheres)), and wish them well - they could profiteer too if they have 'new ideas'.

market - it will force Fein to adopt

True. This is called 'market forces'.

[dom]

I just had a look at the Lawsons ad for Fein - how does this new quick change clamp work - how is it different from the older hole-and-bolt arrangement on multimasters?

[Andy Hall]

However, if you look on the web site of the U.S. patent office, there are a large number of patents going right down to the individual accessory blades, but especially around the use of the oscillating technology. It would be surprising if they would go to so much trouble, comprehensively over so many years, if they weren't interested in protecting their products.

I suppose that it's *possible* that Bosch might have taken a view on enforceability of the patents, but it would be surprising for a large German company to do so on a deep pockets basis. That's not culturally typical.

OTOH If it were the Chinese, I would say that it would be entirely culturally typical, and there are plenty of examples of it.

[Andy Hall]

[Andy Hall]

Aren't you VAT registered?

I don't. It's in their green product range.

Fein are a commercial company and have development costs for products such as this that have to be recovered.

Profiteering has a negative connotation that suggests that the price charged vs. the value isn't justified. One cannot look at these things in terms of assumed cost of manufacturing a unit or of some perceived notion of what the price should be.

No there isn't, but this isn't the case. A rip off happens when the customer has something like a distress purchase or is compelled to buy. Income tax and council tax are rip-offs in terms of return on investment.

Here, you are not compelled to buy and pricing is not unreasonable.

I think that their prices are realistic, and clearly the sales made suggest that as well. In the context of use and time and effort saved, frankly the price is insignificant.

[Ian White]

Bosch have important patents of their own - notably on SDS - so it's quite possible they are doing a trade.

Scanning some German list mail (Googling for the Bosch part number brought it up), we get the usual mixture of "green Bosch is rubbish" and comments from people who have only read about it... makes you feel quite at home, really.

One specific comment was that the blades are not compatible; but take that for whatever it's worth, until someone actually gets both tools side by side.

[dom]

Let's give Bosch the benefit of the doubt and assume they've bought a licence from Fein.

That may explain why it's a diy product - Fein confines itself to the pro-product market but can see potential diy revenue slipping by - so do a deal to licence another manufacturer to do the diy product without watering down your own brand.

The next question, assuming this is the fruits of cooperation, is whether it is more commercially advantageous to make tooling interchangeable between the 2 manufacturers or not?

[John Rumm]

If you look at the videos on the fein site it shows you. Basically the bolt is replaced with a stud that you push through the blade like before, but the tightening is done by a leaver on the tool itself, that locks the stud into place with a single movement. So quicker changes and no tool required.

[Matt]

Radically different.

Look here

[Andy Hall]

Given that scenario one could argue two cases.

- Fein doesn't want (possibly cheaper) Bosch accessories eating away at its consumables revenue stream

- Fein has opportunity to sell its more expensive accessories to users of the Bosch product. I don't buy that one particularly, because if people are buying the slightly cheaper Bosch tool, then part of that may be price sensitivity for consumables.

It's worth noting that Fein has also patented almost all of its accessories, so they consider that there is IP value in these as well.

[Pete C]

How far does the saw blade travel when attached to the Multimaster?

cheers, Pete.

[dom]

Depends how long it is ;-)

On a typical multimaster blade, the oscillation would be about 5-6mm at the tip i.e. half that distance either side of centre.

[dennis]

About 0.05 x the length of the blade if the 3 degree oscillation is true.

[Doctor Drivel]

I hope Aldi sell one soon. I might try one then.

[Doctor Drivel]

>>> Wonder

Bosch will expand the market in this type of tool, this may improve Fein's sales as well. But they will have to drop their silly prices. The Multimaster must be the most overpriced tool on the market.

[Steve Firth]

I thought you claimed to be a professional?

A basic Multimaster kit:

o 1 FEIN MultiMaster FMM 250 o 1 sanding pad o 5 sanding sheets each grit size (K 60, 80, 120) o 1 Universal BiMetal E-Cut saw blade (29 mm) o 1 fixed spatula (rigid scraping knife) o 1 allen key and mounting screws

Costs £ 87.07 which isn't much of a premium over a Bosch.

You're showing yourself up as a bumbling amateur, again.

[Doctor Drivel]

That is ex VAT and no case which is extra. The Bosch has a case. That is one large percentage mark-up.

[Steve Firth]

Amateur, you reclaim the VAT.

[Doctor Drivel]

This is DIY. Boy are you dumb!