More nannying from two jags

[MBQ]

From jeff Howell in the telegraph

"Now plans are afoot to coerce more of us into carrying out "energy-saving" alterations to our properties, whether we want to or not. The strategy is spelled out in a consultation document published by the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister and, if adopted, it will mean that anyone undertaking home improvement work exceeding £8,000 (excluding VAT) will be obliged to spend an additional 10 per cent of the total project value to improve the insulation value of the existing building

"The only good news is that the energy-efficiency improvements would be required to have a payback period of seven years or less, which should rule out measures such as replacement double glazing and solar heating, both of which take decades to pay for themselves. Don't rule out the ODPM tweaking the proposals to get around this caveat, however

"One extraordinary thing about these proposed changes is that very few people in the building industry seem to be aware of them. The proposals were apparently circulated to more than 250 organisations, but the paragraph in question was buried on page 103 of a 332-page document (whose consultation period ended, by the way, three weeks ago)."

Discuss

MBQ

[IMM]

Woe! The Torygraph that organ of truth and impartiality.

Sounds good.

Great idea. I am glad to see this.

Great idea. Most welcome.

[Lee]

I am totally against Goverment interference on principle, but in this case why wouldn't people want to add insulation?

It seems nonsensical to pay good money for improvement work and not add insulation to improve comfort and reduce bills.

Lee

[Bert Coules]

I might well want to. What I object to is being told that I must.

Bert

[Tony Bryer]

Jeff Howell is against double glazing, loft insulation, condensing boilers, energy saving lightbulbs and the rest as regular readers of the Sunday Telegraph will know.

I was at a Part L conference a month ago with 200+ people present and particular attention was drawn to this proposal. The underlying principle is sound: with less than 1% of the housing stock being replaced each year, and U-value requirements almost as low as they can sensibly go, we are not going to significantly cut building energy use by trying to apply ever higher standards to existing buildings. And when it comes to existing buildings the sensible time to think about this is when other building work is being done. Whether it's enforceable in practice is another matter.

[:::Jerry::::]

Care to cite the original OotDP document, I trust you have read it ?...

[Christian McArdle]

Because it might mean destroying priceless plaster mouldings, cornices, wooden soffits etc. in period properties? Not everyone has a modern semi with cavities itching to be filled, you know!

Christian.

[Lee]

Presumably there are ways to add insulation without destroying original features though. Although I guess it probably gets expensive then.

I don't particularly care for period features myself, but that doesn't mean I'd want to destroy them.

Lee

[IMM]

But 90% plus do. So we have laws for a handfull of old crocks of houses? Please!

[Mary Fisher]

You live with them!

Mary

[Christian McArdle]

But you think all the Victorian and Edwardian houses should be pulled down or gutted to be replaced by depressing crap 60's concrete, steel and glass that no person of taste would live in if paid to do so.

Christian.

[Christian McArdle]

I see little opportunity to add wall insulation to a typical Victorian property. Construction is usually pretty external brick bonding (not suitable for insulated stone cladding!), no cavity, internal "seconds" brick, plaster. Intricate plaster mouldings and wooden rails are then usually attached, which are often made in situ using moulds. Not suitable for removal and replacing into the slightly smaller room after 50mm of celotex has made the room too small to hold the furniture any longer.

My house is constructed in this way. However, despite having single glazing and no wall insulation, the official SAP report in the survey came up as "very good" for energy efficiency. It has since been improved with a condensing boiler, heating subzoning and CFL lights.

Christian.

[IMM]

Er No. Little good came out of Victoriana. The latest contemporary designs are brill.

[Christian McArdle]

Well you wanted your ugly heating pipes on display in the middle of the lounge, a fashion which probably looked dated in 1972.

Christian.

[Lee]

You know what I meant ;)

Lee

[Mary Fisher]

Yes, I did. I'm sorry, I couldn't resist ... but some people don't understand that they're part of history.

I'm often asked if I like dressing in costume when I'm in mediaeval or other kit. I'm afraid I retort that mine is no more costume than what they're wearing. That usually serves to make them understand.

Mary

[IMM]

uh!

[Nick Finnigan]

Easy; build a new wall outside the original. 14' air gap should do.

[Christian McArdle]

Presumably it would need to be clad in uPVC?

Christian.

[John Rumm]

You presume that they live in a house that needs extra insulation. Obviously most will, but could you see the plight of a poor IMM living in his German prefab "ECO" house? What would he do? the loft is already full to the top with rockwool, with each roof tile lovingly wrapped in bacofoil....