"leaking" cistern

[John E]

In the bathroom I have an Armitage Shanks Tiffany close-coupled WC with push button flush. It is approx. 3 years old.

I have recently noticed that there is a very slight but constant trickle of water into the bowl as if the siphon has not shut off completely. This is not a case of the push button assembly pushing down on the siphon as the flow does not stop when the lid is removed.

I have replaced old siphons in my time but this type is new to me. I don't know whether there are any serviceable parts. Pictures at:

Can anyone advise me what the problem could be and let me know if it is curable or will the whole assembly have to be replaced.

Thank you.

John

[Bob Mannix]

Looks to me like a flap valve rather than a siphon. These are [very] prone to leakage. You can get a siphon of roughly the same cross section in B&Q for under £10, AFAICR. Siphons don't leak (by their nature). They may stop flushing however if they break.

[Dave Liquorice]

A siphon is either on or off they don't trickle. Is that a real siphon or a drop flap valve? Drop flaps can get crud into them and then they will leak a trickle. I also suspect that that valve/siphon might incorporate an internal overflow which would also produce a trickle down the pan.

[A.Lee]

It is a doddle to fit a new one, just the same as fitting an 'old' siphon. Screwfix sell them, but be aware that there are 2 sizes 1.5" and 2" iirc. The majority are 1.5". Get a new 'doughnut' or foam washer at the same time. They compress/break-up over time, so always best to fit a new one. Alan.

[The Natural Philosopher]

A lot of modern taps and valves don't take kindly to scale and respond by dribbling...

[John E]

I was hoping to avoid taking the cistern off the wall. It looks as though the top part of the valve might unclip but I have been reluctant to force it in case it snaps off and I would really have a problem!

John

[John E]

We are in a very hard water area here.

[John E]

As I mentioned in reply to Bob, I was hoping to avoid de-coupling the WC but if this is the only way than I will have to do it.

John

[Dave Liquorice]

You don't have a bucket? For flushing not using...

[stuart noble]

You can get 3 part syphons which allow you to change the working bits without taking the cistern off. Not much help this time but at least you wouldn't have to dismantle it again

[John E]

It wouldn't be the first time I have had to resort to using a bucket - as you say, for flushing not using :-)

John

[John E]

Thanks Stuart - I will pop down to our local plumbers merchant and see what they suggest. John

[PCPaul]

Now that one's sorted, mine is even more weird - same setup *but* with a traditional lever and syphon. Every so often it trickles water into the bowl for ages (1/2 hr+) and the only way to stop it is to flush again or to take the top off the syphon (which is held on with a plastic pin).

It's not an overflow as the cistern doesn't ever fill up, it just flows straight out again. The syphon doesn't look full so I don't think water is going up and over.

Any thoughts?

[A.Lee]

Sounds like a bit of muck, or even a few hairs in the cistern, causing the seals to be slightly open, allowing a trickle out. I've had them as well where the siphon is slighlty misaligned, and the slight twist in it stops the spring pushing the flap down to the seal. Probably easiest to just fit a new siphon. Also, do you put those blue tablets in your cistern? They are known siphon killers, as a blue gunge builds up around the bottom of the cistern. Alan.

[PCPaul]

But that's the thing - it's a syphon, not a flap valve. There shouldn't

*be* any water to trickle out.

[John]

Eventually the UK will realise they Siphons had advantages over flap valves - but hey! let's get stuffed by the EU.

[Mark]

Your cistern is on mains water and you have a ballcock set-up for gravity supply ?

-

[Bob Mannix]

Well, my new toilet was made in Turkey and has an immensely impressive and high-tech German siphon, so not really an EU problem!

The main problem we have here is that nearly all bathroom stuff is built for european high pressure water systems (mine isn't). I ended up changing the filling valve on the toilet (3m45s to fill) for one from B&Q (3m15s) and then sent off for an "ultra low pressure" diaphram (now 2m30s to fill). The EU is responsible for the toilet arriving set to a poo leaving 6l flush, above times are for the quickly implemented, poo removing, 9l flush. It is dual flush, which IS a good idea.

Also had to return a basin tap (missed the letters "HP" in the catalogue) even the LP tap is slow.

[Rod]

I connected the downstairs cistern to mains pressure - fills in an impressive sub-30 seconds. (Haven't bothered about accuracy - might be significantly less.)

For the bathroom cistern (upstairs) I ran a separate 15mm pipe from the loft tank. It fills very acceptably - though a bit slower - despite the low-ish head. I actually did this to ensure that the H & C were as balanced as possible in the bathroom and would not be upset by flushing (upstairs or down). But I did want it to not be mains fed - so that we have a few flushes available should there be any water supply problem.

In both cases I used the supplied filling valve without difficulty. One cistern was Macdee but I can't rememebr the other one.

[Bob Mannix]

You may have a conventional ball c*ck with low pressure cone inserted - these will fill fastest. Small diameter, silent, modern plastic valves are not great on flow rates! Impressively silent though, or would be except there's a ball c*ck in the loft tamk and you can hear that after the toilet fills!