Yikes!
Lots.
I would like flourecsent tubes if I could find some way of making them look nice. I think think that they make a better working light. Has anyone seen any fittings, or got any tips for installation, that would look acceptable?
I am open to suggestions...
I suspected that they didn't save power...
Colin
Have you thought about a Reliance Senselec IR WC control?
Could they be lowered? My 19-month old daughter can *almost* reach the light switches in my parents house - built in 2002 to the new accessability regulations.
Also the kitchen is a thoroughfare between other rooms (it has 8
But presumably you don't need full lighting to go through the kitchen en route from one room to another?
Maybe you could contact Boeing and ask who supplies their floor level emergency lighting strips - sounds similar...
Neil
You probably need to start from functional requirements, which will almost certainly lead to a mix of different lighting types. We have a somewhat larger kitchen - about 32m^2 - roughly L-shaped, and our lighting scheme consists of:
- three triple-spot clusters, one in the central part of the L and one in each "leg" - these provide the general illumination throughout the room
- striplights underneath wall units covering most of the food preparation worktop areas
- lights built into the cooker hood
- two sets of two LV downlighters, one over the sink, one over the one food prep area not covered by the under-unit strip lights
These are all separate switched (apart from the downlighters, each pair of which is switched with the nearest spot cluster).
I reckon that's a total of 580W of lighting, although its rare for all to be on at the same time, and there's no way that any will be on for
15hrs a day (the room has one N-facing window, two S-facing, and a part-glazed exterior door on the S-facing side).You really need to think about which areas of the room you need to light and why, then work out an appropriate solution ... and, as other posters have suggested, switch the damn lights off ;-)
HTH Julian
75W ones exist:
But people could make all sorts of modifications, and if they do, the onus is on them to do it sensibly.
The trouble with (weakly trying to) protect against what someone might mis-do one day is that its openended: there is no shortage of things an idiot could do, but how is that relevant to your install? Typically when I come across this 'but someone might' approach I see just one maybe offered, and all others ignored, which doesnt seem to make good sense to me.
And if someone did decide to replace this circuit with 100w fittings, thus putting 1.5kW of bulbs in the OP's kitchen, there is already protection equipment in place to deal with that anyhow.
And if they went one step further and replaced the MCB, just how dangerous is running 1,5kW peak on 1,5mm2?
Any why would the present OP have to take action now to prevent someone else's highly unlikely mis-actions in this situation? It sounds like stretching it to me.
I'd love to hear a good explanation though.
Regards, NT
I've done the lighting in two kitchens in last few years. In both cases, I used T4 fluorescent fittings (CPC, B&Q) under the cupboards behind tiny pelmets, and concealed fluorescent tubes on top of the cupboards bouncing light off a white ceiling. This has worked very well with excellent all round lighting, excellent task lighting on the worktops and absolutely no glare. The under cupboard and on cupboard lights are separately switched.
You should consider the colour temperature (and make sure all the tubes are the same). For domestic kitchen lighting levels you want 2700K. This will also match the colour temperature of the other lights in your house and make the kitchen feel warm. If you want to install a significantly higher level of lighting in the kitchen than is perhaps the norm for domestic use, then you can also increase the colour temperture to 3500K, but this will look cold and lifeless unless the lighting level is much higher than you would normally find in a domestic residence. This high level of lighting is something you might particularly want to consider if the kitchen has no natural light and you will be using the lights all through the day. However, it can be overpowering in the early morning and evening when we don't expect such high light levels or high colour temperatures.
Andrew, thanks for the advise... (esp. colour temp.)
The lighting configuration you describe implies that there was no 'direct' lighting except for the under-worktops. Is that correct?
Colin
I should point out the CPC and B&Q fittings come with different colour temperature tubes (CPC is 2700K, and B&Q is 3000K or 3500K, can't recall which).
Yes.
From: Colin:
acceptable?
OK, that I can help you with. I used to use fls a lot before CFLs.
There are 5 problems with typical fl lighting installs:
... All of which are easy to avoid.
1 and 2 are easy: use either trough of shelf fittings - preferably trough.___________
Thanks for the information. There is a lot to think about. Sounds like a brilliant set of solutions. Just a few supplemental questions...
_________ _
Do you get more light output per watt with a larger tube rather than a smaller one?
Sounds like a great idea. I don't suppose that you have any idea where they are sold? Would LED's do?... or not bright enough.
Thanks, Colin
Even with all of this trouble, they still look clinical.
I use daylight fittings with electronic ballasts in my workshop because I want good light intensity and the spectrum is appropriate.
I am far from convinced that fluorescents used in a kitchen to the exclusion of incandescent lighting can cover the complete range of requirements and moods.
If the kitchen is like a commercial one, used for preparation and cooking only and wall to wall white and stainless steel, then this may be OK. It certainly isn't, in my view if the room is multifunctional - fluorescents, no matter how good just don't have the aesthetic warmth. This may cost more to run, but need not be excessive and is quite reasonable unless one is looking for an energy saving Holy Grail and that is more important than a balance with appearance.
.andy
To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
I honestly think thats a myth born from the way people mostly use them
- that is what makes them clinical. I have done some very warm moody fl setups, and people didnt believe it when I told them it was all fluorescent. A light can be any way you want it. Once you're using the right tubes (not daylights, I like 3500K best) and installing them the right way, then you can play and get what you want. The problem with fls is not fls themselves, it is the culture that has grown up around them, plus the now antique cold white tubes, which are just plain orrid. The problem is they can be done so badly.
of course, I've yet to meet anyone who believes it till theyve seen it. Its like telling someone eggs taste good when all they've ever seen is stinking rotten eggs. I'll just agree to differ. :)
Regards, NT
Yes, thats one reason trough is better. You can stick something on the fittings, but really just use troughs. Shelf setup is more for quick temporary lighting, you can try things out like that.
Of course you dont have to stick with the original casings, but that is more work.
Yes, but not by a lot. 2' tubes are much nicer to use than 4 or 5 footers. Big ones really limit what one can do, a 2 foot tube is much more versatile.
A modern fashion is to hang a trough from the ceiling in the centre of the room, and put a large fl tube in that. For commercial premises its a big step up from the bare tubes, but I wouldnt want something like that in a kitchen.
As far as I know theyre not sold. Find some little bright metal cups, something the right width, find some suitable bulbs... have the bulb filament forward enough so its directly visible, the idea is just to recreate the glare and outline of downlighters, but without the downlight.
I think youre asking for extra work with LEDs.
If you want to play you can change the tint of the lights by painting some of the wall within the trough a desired colour - I've done that occasionally. It can be used for a bit of dramatic effect. Best to play then go back to white, unless youre sure you got what you wanted. I used coloured paper just to try it out, but the paper always bleaches after a while. Or you can put the paper over the lights for great mood lighting. Fls dont get anything like as hot as filament bulbs. However I'd probly best say dont do that, you never know.
I also like to include a 3-6w fl or cfl for nightlighting, and its bright enough to use on its own occasionally too. Or a 2w cool white one gives a moonlit effect. If youve got plants you can put a 3w CFL in among those for a simple effect.
You can make windows too with fls, hang the curtains up and put 2 vertical tubes behind them to mimic daylight leaking round the edges. Many tricks, but I must go to bed this century. Have fun.
Regards, NT
I am running 7x5m on just 9 downlightres and three 40W bubs. Its enough for us, but it is not a bright modern appearance. Thats about 600W for a similar sized room
However it does light the worktops and stove well enough, and the gaps between are well enough lit to avoid trampling on the kittens, mostly :-)
Its about what a big room takes, sadly. On incandescents.
Guess why offices use em throughout...
The MOST efficient INCANDESCENT is a bare bulb dangling on a bit f wire. about 10W/sq meter. Any kind of mood lighting, wall lights, standard lamps or downligheters is about 20W/sq meter.
It's more about misusing task lights for general lighting. Using appropriate incandescent luminares for providing general lighting would knock the figure down considerably. Downlighters are not for general lighting, so unsurprisingly they are very inefficient if you try to misuse them that way.
They're also very good for puncturing holes in your previously fire resistant ceiling, and as an added bonus, each has the power and heat available to behave as an incendiary device given the opportunity, and their excellent positioning in a brech of the firebreak.
So... I guess that to get mood lighting costs twice as much as what I've got now. I suppose this is acceptable. What I was baulking at was using downlighters which, on paper, appear to cost ten times more...
It appears to me that downlighters may well go the same way as laminate flooring and date really quickly... ;-)
Colin
Our kitchen has two circular flourescent fittings for general lighting which are quite acceptable. There are then under cupboard slim flourescents and some downlighters over the sink. The two circular lights are spearately switched and that's what you turn on for 'walking through' the kitchen.
[snip]
What about having a square section diffuser over them?
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