Installing a gas combi boiler

[Kieran]

I've hung all the radiators, routed all the pipe work down to a nice spot in the kitchen, now it's time to buy and install the gas combi boiler. However, searching this newsgroup, I keep seeing stuff about boiler installation being a job exclusively for expert CORGI registered plumbers....? I was going to get a CORGI man in to connect the gas pipe to the meter, but apart from that I was under the impression that I could do everything else myself, including constructing a 22mm gas pipe from the meter cupboard to the kitchen (without actually connecting it to the meter), and fitting the flue through the outside wall. What's the big deal? How could what I'm doing possibly be dangerous? A combi boiler is a sealed unit with a specification sheet and fitting instructions. In goes the mains water, 15mm gas pipe, and electric cable, and out goes the hot water and feed/return central heating pipes. If any of you could outline the dangers that I may possibly be blundering into, I'd be very grateful. If you seriously recommend I get a CORGI man in to do the whole boiler installation, could you give me an estimate of how much this will cost? Many thanks.

[I J H]

instructions.

My ex landlord fitted a new combi bolier in my old flat himself and i'm pretty sure he wasn't CORGI registered.

[Ben Blaukopf]

Good luck finding one to do that. Mine said he did it once, and wasn't going near it again. Something to do with a bent flue...

instructions.

I'm pretty much in your position - very confident that I could do the joints, and follow the instructions. However, I paid someone 700 quid to install my boiler, and after watching them, I reckon I made the right choice. It took 2 men a good days work (they had to take out my old cylinder, and the flue went through the roof). It would have taken me two weekends and the evenings in the middle, I reckon, and I'd have been without hot water for all that time (boiler went where the cylinder was). Plus I'd have had to spend money buying/hiring the odd tool (e.g. a manometer, and in your case a core drill).

Having watched them do it, I might consider it next time, but it's not an easy choice.

They did have a lot of trouble capping the gas supply to my old back boiler (which incidentally, had a far from air-tight flue!. I took perverse pleasure in listening to him swear, glad it wasn't me :)

Ben Ben

[Andy Hall]

We have covered this many, many times - it typically coming up about every two weeks. Please refer back to recent threads using Google Groups and a keyword of CORGI and you will find everything regarding competence etc.

The big deal is that you do have to be competent but the law does not define it. You could begin by looking at Ed Sirett's FAQ and see if you then feel comfortable with the exercise.

Very easily if you get it wrong.

Not all of the information required is in the instructions. Have you sized the gas pipe correctly considering the rest of the installation for example? 22mm is probably OK, but it does depend on other appliances and pipework.

There are two main areas:

- It can be a prudent idea to get a CORGI man to come and do the meter connection, test and commission. However, you are asking him to sign his life away by so doing - i.e. in effect he takes responsibility for the installation, legally speaking. You can imagine that some fitters are OK with that, others are not - he didn't see you do the work. It would be sensible to identify a fitter before you start and discuss the project. He is not going to make that much money because there will be little work, no supply of boiler to produce a margin and a responsibility at the end.

- Boiler installation is now something that comes under Building Regulation control for reasons of energy efficiency. You have two choices on how to deal with this. a) Hire a CORGI man to do the work and he can self certify the installation, or b) you issue a building notice to your local authority. The cost of this is based on the cost of the work as though done by a professional and I think that you will be into a fee of £50-100 or so for it.

.andy

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[Keithc666767117]

do not run any copper that will carry gas unless corgi registered even if you know someone who is corgi and they watch why you do the work is not acceptable. Cost can range pending on work involved but at a guess allow around £550

[Andy Hall]

Where have you come from?

Go and read the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998.

The law does not support your assertion.

.andy

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[Kieran]

That's an insane amount of money for such a small amount of work - I'm a computer programmer and would like to think I get paid well, but there's no way on gods clean earth I'm paying some oil rag btec weilding charlatan £550 to do a couple of hours manual labour. I think I'll risk installing it myself - I have a feeling this newsgroup is also known as the guild of plumbers.

[chris French]

In message , Kieran writes

It will take more than a couple of hours to install boiler, which is what i think was being referred to. And installing gas boiler safely does require some skills, and failure to do so properly is potentially fatal. (though the failures that so result are generally by 'pros'

Then you need to read it rather more deeply, and do a Google Groups search as suggested by Andy. CORGI's and claims that only they can do such things are given short shrift.

To go back to your original post, you can do the whole installation including the gas side yourself if you so wish - see what is said about 'competency', or you can do as you suggest and get a suitable person to do the gas work and commissioning, though it may be easier said than done I should think, as there is little money in it.

Indeed it is safe enough to do the rest of the installation, it is even safe enough to do the gas work DIY as well, as long as you read up on it and understand what to do.

[Ed Sirett]

However if anything had gone really wrong he would now be in custody. Also within 12 months a registered fitter would have had to inspect it.

[IMM]

If he was resident there, which he would be when there are no tenants, and he was competent he is within the law. He has to have a landlords certificate anyhow when letting, so what he does is overridden by the certificate anyhow.

A friend of mine is self employed CORGI heating engineer. He is apprenticing his son. his son is in his mid 20s and was in comms, CAT5 etc, so know how to rip up buildings to feed service through. he is also v good at electrics and has an aptitude for boiler controls. His son does "all" of the work in some jobs: pipework, boiler, electrics and commissioning. He just looks and puts his name to it...........Just like the landlords certificate.

[Ed Sirett]

The FAQ as mentioned above is shown below.

I'm posting this comment now because invariably discussion of the fees charged for boiler replacement are based on an unrealistic estaimate of the work involved IF THE WORK IS DONE CORRECTLY.

I have repeatedly tried to dispel the notion that boiler replacement is a few hours work.

Let us say that the existing installation was compliant with Part L of the building regs and somehow you found it necessary to exchanger the boiler with the exactly the same model. [1]

Then you would still need to flush the existing system out perhaps twice to comply with the instructions. Admittedly the removal and installation of the boiler itself on the wall is a small part of the job, then there is the matter of filling in the log book. This takes a minimum of an hour to measure and gather all the info required on the form.

As I have said before a couple of days is more plausible.

[1] This is just plain unlikely, almost always the boiler replacement involves considerable upgrade to the system in other respects. Whilst the only boilers that fail so quickly that you might actually replace them with the same unit are likely to be such crap that you would be a fool not to fit something better this time around.

[Andy Hall]

Far from it, Kieran. The majority of regular contributors here are in favour of DIY gas fitting *provided* that it is done competently. That's simply common sense.

If you research the subject properly and ask questions where you are not 100% certain, and can solder fittings reliably, well and consistently then there is no reason that you should not undertake the work yourself. You do need to be aware of all the tests that must be carried out, but these are not rocket science. As I mentioned, not all of it is mentioned in the boiler instructions simply because there are standard things that must *always* be done. Ed's FAQ discusses this.

If you would like to look at the legislation for your own edification, it is on the HMSO web site. The clear restriction is that you may not do gas fitting work professionally without being a CORGI member having the appropriate training.

The Building Regulations issue is another aspect. You can choose to ignore it if you wish - up to you - it is an energy saving point. However, the issue could come at the point when you sell the house and are asked to produce evidence of compliance by a diligent solicitor's clerk.

Don't think of this in risk vs. cost terms. Life always has risks of course, but they can be minimised.

The important point is to make sure that you know what's involved either way so that you can make a sensible choice and if that is to do the work yourself that it is with less risk than using a professional.

There are a number of regular contributors to this newsgroup who are qualified and practicing CORGI fitters - I've met at least two of them and their comments and help are valuable.

I would suggest doing your research and asking your questions, and I think you will find help forthcoming if people feel that you know basically what is involved and are looking for some detail.

Don't forget also that some boilers require specialised test gear in the form of a combustion analyser to set them up. These are approaching £300, so if you have such a boiler then self installation may not make economic sense. Others are done by pressure measurement (inexpensive manometer) or timing the gas rate at the meter. In other respects the tools required are standard plumbing tools.

.andy

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[IMM]

Your pretentious attitude I find offensive. You think yourself high and mighty because you work with computers or something. Heating engineers are well educated and highly qualified and experienced. It takes them 5 years to learn, then they do it by themselves which takes another 5 years to fully master, if they ever do as the industry changes at the rate the computer industry DID change at.

This is typical of the British attitude that anyone who uses tools for a living is low in some way.

[tarquinlinbin]

presumably,as a "computer programmer" you look down on manual workers?

[IMM]

It only takes a months course to be one of them.

[geoff]

In message , Keithc666767117 writes

There is only one gas joint in my house which was done by someone other than myself, when the cooker was installed while I wasn't there. It was installed by A BG CORGI reg'd fitter, and it's the only one which was not done properly and had a leak. Unless I knew him, I wouldn't let a CORGI fitter through the front door

[geoff]

In message , Kieran writes

Err EXCUSE ME !

[geoff]

In message , IMM writes

DO excuse IMM, he likes his little jokes

[IMM]

Maxie, are your gearing up for the festive season by practicing here?

[Kieran]

Yep.