HWRC - Hmmmmm (Council / Legal type issue)

[www.GymRatZ.co.uk]

The local Household Waste Recycling Centre (Managed by subcontractors Gurney May)is bugging me.... The other week I drove past as I occasionally do to drop off a few plastic bottles and was met with a new boy stating my vehicle wasn't allowed in and I need a van permit. The other guy on the gate disagreed saying it's OK as I have windows and seats in the back but new-boy held his ground then said he was going to report me for flytipping when I drove past and proceeded to deposit my single bag of recycling!

The vehicle is a VW Transporter with fully fitted VW Carvelle rear seats (fitted from new), seatbelts and windows etc and is my family vehicle, great for getting mountain bikes in the "boot" and 5 people etc.

The Severn Bridge toll people classes it as a car and the government produced "Severn Bridge Act" bases it's vehicle classification on the fact that it has one or more rear seats and one or more side windows behind the driver or passenger seat regardless of tax classification, use or insurance.

Until I wrote to the council asking for clarification there was nothing detailing their guidelines, since then they've added a document which still leaves me in the grey area to a degree.

So I appreciate different councils appear to all have completely different rules but has anyone come across any legal standing or other that gives HWRC operatives the right to refuse entry for the disposal of domestic waste and recycling which is part of my council tax.

Limiting my visits to 12 times a year and during times I generally can't get to the tip (i.e. during working hours and on a Saturday) must be in contravention to my rights as part of the council tax provisions paid for.

Anyone had any similar dealings and success or failures with their local council recycling center?

Cheers Pete@

[jgh]

You don't pay for anything with your council tax, other than not getting sent to prison. Local government services are provided because you exist, not because you are rich enough to pay taxes. The hint is in the name, "tax".

Within certain legal restrictions, council tax is there for the council to spend on absolutely utterly what they want. It is

*NOT* a service charge that you pay to buy services.

JGH

[www.GymRatZ.co.uk]

A very good point, didn't ever think of it that way. Thanks for highlighting it JGH

:¬) Pete@

[Tim Watts]

On Tuesday 15 October 2013 20:00 [e-mail] wrote in uk.d-i-y:

So why do they give you a little leaflet showing how much goes to various activities, eg the Police?

[Adrian]

Look a bit closer at the numbers, particularly at their sources of income.

For my local council, council tax provides less than 25% of their annual income. Business Rates are 15%, the Government provides just under half, and the rest is a mix of oddsy-sodsy 5% max stuff. It's one council for the whole county, no district council. £150m budget for less than 200,000 people, so roughly £750/head spent. Yes, we personally do pay more than that - as two people in a high-band house. But not much more.

[SteveW]

That may be true for many things, but funnily enough, not for waste - at least around here. We are in Trafford and the bill is made up of council tax, plus three separate *charges* for the whole of Greater Manchester (for "Police and Crime Commissioner", "Fire and Rescue Authority" and "Waste Disposal Authority.") So it is specifically stated that the waste part is indeed a charge, not a tax. As a charge, I would presume that I have a right to the same level of service as everyone else and therefore as long as it is only household waste that I am taking, it shouldn't matter what vehicle I use. It probably would matter, but legally, I should have a right to use the facilities that I have been charged for with whatever vehicle I happen to own or have the use of.

SteveW

[nobody]

This is exactly my gripe Steve. Though I haven't checked to see whether North Somerset consider it a "charge" or a "tax" :¬)

Pete@

[RJH]

Those legal restrictions, set by central govt, prescribe pretty much the whole pot.

The remaining 76% of local taxation goes to central govt to distribute as it sees fit.

[dennis]

Because that isn't council tax.

[Huge]

You can split as many hairs as you like.

[Tim Watts]

On Wednesday 16 October 2013 00:03 dennis@home wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Funny - it comes with the council tax demand my way...

[Andrew May]

Except, IIRC, the correct title is 'community charge' not tax.

[charles]

Yes, it does. your district (borough, unitary authority) collect charges for themselves, County Council (if appropriate) and the Police. Read the leaflet that accompanies the bill. It does tell you.

In the same way, my water suppier also collects sewage charges on behalf of Thames Water. It stop lots of separate bills.

[charles]

NO

"Community Charge" was the name given to what was unofficially called Poll Tax. The current replacement of Rates (for domestic premises) is Council Tax.

[Andrew May]

You're right. I was getting confused. Not had my first coffee yet.

[charles]

It makes such a difference ;-)

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 09:31:09 on Wed, 16 Oct 2013, charles remarked:

Both of mine are done by Anglian Water, but it seems bonkers that in a dry part of the country they charge more for the sewerage than supplying the water in the first place. They should be paying me - without the water we stick down the drains, they'd not have much to sell back to us!

[Yes I know there's rainwater too, but doesn't most of that go into soakaways, and any that gets into the foul sewer's still water they can sell back to us].

[Huge]

Wow, the hair-splitters are out in force today.

[bert]

In message , charles writes

And Fire Service

[<me9]

They're there only to spend money approved by the government. If they haven't the money they can't serve the local community who elected them, neither are they permitted to raise money from the local community to provide services. They need to reduce the local services they were elected to supply in order to allow the central government to be able to reduce their spend in order for the central government to be re-elected. A giant see-saw.