I know that this is a DIY group but also know that certain trades frequent this forum. I would be particularly interested in any one who has experienced being overcharged by Howdens, the trade division of MFI. I have requested credit notes for several overcharged items and despite assurances that these would be processed, they have not materialised. This has happened before at another branch and instigated my dealings with this other branch. The manager assures me that they have been processed. Could it be head office deliberately withholding credit notes. To try to speed the process up I deliberately withheld the credit due from my recent monthly payment. This immediately sparked credit control to ring me to ascertain why there was a shortfall especialy as I had endorsed the payment slip with "awaiting outstanding credit notes". They contacted the branch concerned and rang back several days later to see if the branch had contacted me to sort the matter out. I explained that they had not. A further phone call to me stating that the branch had tried to contact me but had been unable to get through. The credit controller went quite when I explained that every time that they had rung me they had got through. Now finally I have just received a letter threatening legal action if I do not make the full payment. They are starting to piss me off. I just hope that the MD of Howdens is reading this so he can realise what a bunch of tossers I am dealing with. Best of it is I have three branches writing to me with offers of a superb deal on kitchens. Probably give it to Magnets, that'll teach em. Just out of interest I wonder how Mr Hall would deal with them. Disgruntled Legin
When you say "overcharged" do you mean that they entered higher numbers than the marked price, the agreed price, didn't apply a discount for the deal, agreed in general or entered the transaction more than once?
Maybe they have been at the branch and therefore as far as he is concerned, he has done his piece and the issue is off of his plate.
Unless there is some kind of organised game which is possible but one can't tell. If they all arrive at once on a certain day of the month then it may indicate some policy that is a way to improve cash flow. The more likely expectations are sloppy keying of data at the branches or incompetence at head office. Normally "the computer" is blamed and most people are stupid enough to accept the excuse. You have the same situation from two branches now so there is a bit of a clue.
Amazing, isn't it?
Do the promised credit notes amount to complete transactions or do they represent parts of larger ones? If they are for complete ones, then you could write to them disputing the invoice. Actually you could anyway. Most organisation's credit control have procedures for dealing with those.
This is a good reason to conduct these things in writing. FAX is a reasonably good way that doesn't eat into too much time writing letters and going to the post office. That can be saved for if or when it looks like being a more serious discussion. FAXes also involve the supplier in extra work and reduce the possibilities for different departments and locations to bear false witness. Even the stupid think more carefully before putting something in writing.
Jolly good.
No need for that, just sit back and enjoy the fun
He probably isn't and probably does.
No it won't. They aren't bright enough at branch level in most of these places to really care.
Ah well......
From your mail, I assume that you are dealing with them as being a business vs. being a consumer. If you look through the Ts & Cs of most merchants who by intent or not deal with consumers, they have one set that applies to consumers (they have to) and another for business customers. The former give you a lot more protection because of consumer legislation.
Business customers have fewer statutory rights AIUI, so in the ultimate case it's a question of what the courts decide. I'm less familiar with the scenarios for businesses, but you have to look at the different implications for sole traders, limited companies etc.
I think that the best comments are to make sure that there is a paper trail and to start sending that to the company's credit control and legal representatives (or credit collection agencies). This will incur cost for them and generally make sure they have their ducks in line in case it were to go to court.
The other dimension is whether you want/need to deal with them in the future. It may be that despite all the BS, they have good products and prices for what you want, and supplier Y next door is just as bad anyway.
Given the situation, I think that I would play their system. This is a finance handling problem so find the name of the finance director and phone him, confirming the conversation by fax or letter. If the issue is actually at the branches then he may push it onto the area manager or something like that. You could contact the area manager anyway. Some of these organisations have regional business development people as well whose job it is to retain business.
I do think that a key thing is not to rely on verbal promises or attempts to allocate blame elsewhere. Hence the importance of written communication.
Taking a different tack....
For the purposes of building materials etc. I am not a business but tend to use trade rather than DIY sources. Numerous places have offered me trade credit account and terms, but I've avoided that. I make sure that anything in excess of £100 is paid by credit card and that the words "consumer purchase" are entered on any generated delivery note etc. that I sign.
On that subject, quite a lot of trade places seem to print off delivery notes for goods being taken and expect you to sign. That's OK as far as it goes, but these usually don't have prices on them. I therefore always ask for a quote or pro forma to be printed with the agreed prices and discounts and to reference those on delivery notes I sign. This at least cuts out some of the nonsense that can happen in branches.
I've read this through and - with some experience of levering large companies to sort out their maladministrations, I'd make some points to you.
First, you clearly are disputing certain charges in your bills. That has to be put in writing, and the fact of your dispute notified to thecompany in writing - in a way that is not contestable. That means a Recorded Delivery letter to a named Officer of the Company - even the local branch manager ( by name and title ) will do.
Second, their accounts department have notified you in writing that certain bills rendered remain unpaid, and that further action will follow if you do not respond. Your response must be - for your protection - in writing, as above. Recorded Delivery.
Third, you need to say, effectively, that you are willing to pay all that is properly owing. You cannot legitimately withold payment of Invoice Y because of a dispute or error in Invoice A. You must state why you consider you are in dispute and invite them to communicate with you, for an 'early and mutually agrreed resolution of the issues'.
Fourth, you require to send a copy of whatever you send to elsewhere in the company, as a complaint directly to the Managing Director of the company or group, and clearly indicating there is a dispute and asking for a swift resolution. Recorded Delivery. The laws on Corporate Governance are such that *no* senior director of a PLC who wants to remain as a director will nowadays ignore such a letter of complaint. That's why there will be a team at Head Office whose jobit is to resolve such issues without need to go to court.
Fifth, if this does end up in a court, then anyone seeking to judge what has happened and what should have happened will want to see your letters and Recorded Delivery slips. Then they will ask the representatives of Howdens why they did not do what was reasonably asked of them.......
You can do all this yourself, or you can get someone else to do it for you. That usually costs - at the least, some of your time. But that's a far lesser cost than ignoring it, 'cos that way you lose both money and time. Once you have won, you can always reasonably ask Howdens for a 'consideration' of the time you spent sorting out their mistake....... You might be pleasantly surprised.
Correct, that's why PC World always ask if you are buying for business when you are paying at the till.
There was a case in one of the PC magazines recently that highlighted the fact that a small business owner who had trouble with some kit had a lot less rights than if he had bought it as a private consumer.
Isn't MFI in financial straights? So perhaps also their trade division? And the first sign of this is often failing to refund what is owed or pay their bills on time, etc.
No the Howden's division is making shedloads, the MFI division which was losing hand over fist has just been sold to a venture capital consortium for £1
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to Howden's we got a trade account with them but the quote for a base model kitchen was jaw droppingly high, even after the "discount". That and the fact that the "design" they had done was completely different to what we had specified meant we said stuff that.
Funnily enough we then got a call from them saying they were doing a promotion and they could do it cheaper. But as it was still more than Wickes in their sale for a better style we have ordered from them.
But I didn't go to MFI I went to Howden's, same group different division.
I didn't bother to go to MFI because of people I know were having long delivery times quoted and weren't impressed with the buying experience. Howden's said they could deliver next day.
As it was my sister had just bought a Wickes Kitchen and was pleased with the service. As we liked the look of one of the Wickes range, once they were on "sale" again, we bought it there with a delivery time of 3 weeks.
Interestingly MFI/Howden's are allegedly shifting production to Eastern Europe, I wonder how that will affect things.
Most retailers are in the dwang - it's only the depth that varies. However, normally these groups have arrangements of holding companies for tax purposes and to insulate the operating companies from one another. Kingfisher's looks like the cast of Ben Hur.
Knowing nothing more than has been reported in The Telegraph ; 0 AIUI; the group has been acquired by 'investors', For the group they paid a nominal £1 - but fed in £54M (?) to service debts, salaries etc .... The Group Pension Fund has been underwritten by the new owners. Howdens is the manufacturer of the kitchens sold in MFI stores, albeit it also 'sells' directly to the Trade. Howden's have a contract/exclusive agreement to supply MFI for a period (six months?) after which period .... ? Manufacture of MFI sold goods may be sourced from places other than Howden's.
replying to legin, Trueknowledge1 wrote: Write your concerns to Matthew dot Ingle at Howdens dot com. He's the CEO. While you're at it ask him if he thinks it fair on the consumer to create a mark up on all kitchens sold to backhand as a credit onto the builders' account? Anything from 500-1500 quid. Also ask him if he accepts they are possibly facilitating tax avoidance by actively demanding that these sweeteners are build into the hyper inflated quotes for the builder to give to their customer!
Yes hardly any point in it now. So can you explain to me about this portal to the Usenet groups and how it is that so many old messages get regurgitated every so often and why people reply to them, ie is the date somehow hidden on the web site? Its gettting to the point where I'll soon just filter aanything with the text in it that proves its been to this site. Brian
Given that google's own usenet archive doesn't show up on a "normal" google search, anyone who doesn't know that google groups exists will find results from 3rd party web portals such as home owner's hub.
The site displays recent messages and best rated messages, for all of them it displays a date above the article, just that nobody notices it.
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