House painting spec

[Tim]

Does anyone have an example of a specification to give a decorator for an external paint job. It seems more reasonable to give the guy a spec of what is expected, even though writing it all down is a pain in the ....

A related question: The sash window slides have been painted up and the windows don't work. Is it reasonable to ask the decorator to clean the paint off, wax the grooves, fix/replace the parting bead, and get the windows working, or is that a job for a specialist who really knows what he is doing? It's definitely not a job I can manage except on the ground floor.

[Chris Bacon]

Turn it around, get him to give you a spec. which you approve.

Why does it make any difference whether it's the ground floor or the first? You don't need to go outside... the decorater should be able to deal with this if he's got experience, but may decline to do so if the windows are "iffy". What are these slides and grooves that you mention?

[Stuart Noble]

As you say, no need to go outside. Off with the 2 staff beads at the sides, and swing the lower sash inwards so you can get at the parting beads. I use pliers to pull them out if I want to salvage them (which saves the hassle of trying to find replacements of the same thickness), but normally they're shot to pieces. Another pair of hands preferable.

[Chris Bacon]

I use a short block of planed timber at an angle against the staff beads, and tap it with a hammer to start the bead. It can then be levered up more easily/with less (or no) damage.

Parting beads are best removed as you describe, or with some other thing like pincers/grips/packing - frequently it seems that screwdrivers etc. were pushed into the sides as levers, which can be rather destructive.

To replace parting bead, it's easy enough to get some strip and plane it down a touch, rounding off with the plane, too. It's not really worth trying to find anything "off the shelf" IME as it doesn't exist!

What's all this about wax that the OP's talking about?

[Tim]

I suspect that most decorators are better at decorating than at writing specs. My aim is to get an unambiguous spec without giving the people quoting any unnecessary work.

On commercial jobs, does the architect write the spec?

On either side of the parting bead.

[Tim]

Chris Bacon wrote

I thought that you were supposed to wax the channel the windows slides in. I guess I am wrong, so what is the best treatment for this wood? My windows, twelve on three floors, are all painted shut, though one or two windows can be moved a few inches.

[Christian McArdle]

I'd be surprised if the decorator wants to take on that job, although it is definetely worth asking. A sash window specialist will do it all, including replacing any worn sash cord etc. for about 150-200 quid a window.

As others have said, it is done entirely from the inside. No ladders required. When replacing the parting bead, use a draughtproofed modern version. Sash window hardware is available from

There is no need for brushes on the beading, or on the meeting rails. Just the parting bead will do. Brushes on the meeting rail can trap water and the gap is useful as a trickle vent.

Christian.

[Chris Bacon]

You don't put wax on these.

[Chris Bacon]

'Kinell. That seems pretty steep to me, compared with DIY-ing, which is easy.

[Chris Bacon]

Try one... go on! Select a window that's a bit out of the way, and have a go! They really are simple, you'll be surprised!

[Christian McArdle]

Indeed. I think the stripping and painting are expensive in professional terms, requiring much time, including drying between coats etc.

Christian.

[Tim]

So how do you treat the unpainted timber? Varnish of some sort?

[Chris Bacon]

The only unpainted timber should be on the sides of the sliding sashes (where the cords are nailed in). These should have a few inches of paint near the bottom, though. You won't see that unless you remove them. The visible bits of the sash box should all be painted.

[Stuart Noble]

Some old sashes will have strips the width of the parting bead where the paint has rubbed off with friction. This where you're better rubbing a candle over it rather than painting. Or you may find there's a thick layer of paint there where the faces have been stripped but the edges left. In that case best to leave it so that you don't reduce the sash thickness and give it room to rattle. There's normally a lot of clearance between the sides of the sash and the frame, so lubrication isn't necessary, but candle wax will add protection to the bare wood. I never bother as these edges are the least vulnerable part.

[Chris Bacon]

Not sure I understand you - do you mean on the face of the frame?

"Mighton parting bead".

If I could think of a good way to fit Mighton parting bead into an oversize groove, not involving drilling and pinning the things and bodging the groove up with mastic, I'de be quite glad. I've been toying with the idea of using a rubber strip of the right width and using car body filler as, erm, filler. Any ideas?

[Phil L]

He doesn't need one if he's a decorator and not an odd-job man, you just tell him the colours of stonework, woodwork, metalwork etc and he'll do the job, he doesn't need to be told to fill, rub down, dust off etc, it's his job. If you insist on a spec, then something like:

Window frames: 1 coat of undercoat (colour) followed by 1 coat of gloss (colour) Barge boards and soffits: 1 coat of undercoat (c) followed by 1 coat of gloss (c) (in the case of soffits, barge boards etc, you might want a different coloured undercoat to the gloss, so that you can see that they have had 2 coats, or 3 if you desire 3 coats - a common scheme for these is red undercoat, grey undercoat, gloss (not grey)) Gutters: as frames etc

It's unlikely a decorator would do these, especially at this time of year when everybody and his uncle wants their exterior painting and he's inundated with work, also if you are getting this done, you'd be as well having it done prior to decorating, given that he'll have to paint inside the runners and whoever frees the sashes will be chipping a lot of the old paint off.

[Ken]

The whole question comes down to cost. If you want a rolls royce job, expect to pay, especially if you expect paint defects to be burned or sanded down. I have seen it too many times, decorating is the thing you see. Cheap price=cheap job. Just bear it in mind. Good preparation takes time and many processess-- this costs money.

ken

[Tim]

Chris Bacon wrote

OK. But looking round the neighbourhood I often see that the wood described as the Pulley Stile on this page

is unpainted. Does that make sense or is a response to folk law?

[Chris Bacon]

I've no idea. It doesn't make sense at all. I've never seen this done generally. What happens where the pulley stile meets the sill?

[Stuart Noble]

Yes. The bit that's hidden by the parting bead.

I'd try the Mighton bead with body filler. 3 or 4 small dabs to hold it in position, then take your time making a neat job of the rest