Following on with Arfa's Burger Joint's electrics ...

[Arfa Daily]

The wife, having - how shall we say - had a 'difference of opinion' with the original electrician, has dispensed with his services. All he actually fitted for us, was the three fused spurs required by the fume extraction equipment. Today, the landlord's contractors came back with their buildings inspector - a sort of Elfin Safety bloke as I understand it - to sign off the final test on the electrics and building work that they had done. Apparently, the wife says that he had a fit when he saw that the electrician that we had to put the spurs in, had just laid the cables across the top of the suspended ceiling that's in the place. He said that this was not acceptable practice in a commercial installation, and cables could not be left laying loose like that. Is this true ? If so, it will give us some ammo to contest the TTP invoice that he has presented us with for the little bit of work done.

On top of this, when they came to check the water heater in the newly built bog that they had put in, it was dead. Turns out that the guy had nicked it's feed to connect our spurs to. Presumably, this was because he hadn't got an appropriate breaker to fit the board, so figured that he would put it right later when he came back to do the rest of the work - except he won't be back now ...

I don't know what you have to do these days to get reliable trades in. This guy had come recommended by a work colleague.

We have it sorted properly now. The landlord's guys are going to do it all for us. They are actually a great team and very professional in all they do. The same electrician who divided the electrics and put the new board in as part of the conversion work, is coming back to do it.

Arfa

[John Rumm]

I have seen plenty of commercial installs where this sort of thing is done. Whether one would call it acceptable is another matter.

TTP?

So what happened to the second electrician that was going to do the fryers?

[Andy Wade]

Quite. It's very common to find a mess of mains, CAT5 and alarm cables (etc.). Often there's a tidy original installation on suspended cable tray too. Thermal insulation 'pillows' are often used now above suspended ceilings, and there are hot light fittings, so you do need to be careful.

[Andy Burns]

Most suspended ceilings I've had the displeasure to lift up have had mains, alarm, phone and data cable running loose in all directions. Some do have cable trays though.

[Arfa Daily]

TTP = "Take The Piss" The second electrician was fine, except that as it turned out, they were so busy they couldn't come to do the main part of the job for several weeks. When the original 'company' lads - whom the wife and daughter trust implicitly, having had experience of their electrical and building work during the conversion, and some other building work they did for us at the same time - came back yesterday, and offered to do the rest of the job next week, she made an executive decision, and told them to go ahead. The second guy was fine with it. He already knew, as did we, that he was struggling to fit us in in the required timeframe.

Arfa

[Nightjar]

I would think it does not comply with Regulation 4(1) of the Electricity at Work Regulations 1989:

'All systems shall at all times be of such construction as to prevent, so far as is reasonably practicable, danger'

The HSE guidance notes to the regulations expand on this:

62 The word ?construction? in the regulation has a wide application. It may be considered to cover the physical condition and arrangement of the components of a system at any time during its life. It will include aspects such as the design of the system and the equipment comprising that system. 63 In assessing the suitability of the construction of electrical systems, consideration should be given to all likely or reasonably foreseeable conditions of actual application or use of the electrical equipment in the system. This will include the testing, commissioning, operation and maintenance of the equipment throughout the life of the system. 64 In particular, consideration should be given to: ... (f) the environmental conditions which will have a bearing on the mechanical strength and protection required of the equipment; ... (h) the manner in which commissioning, testing and subsequent maintenance or other work may need to be carried out.

The notes define system as follows:

15 The term ?system? includes all the constituent parts of a system, eg conductors and electrical equipment in it, and is not a reference solely to the functional circuit as a whole. It follows that something required of a system is required both of the system as a whole and of the equipment and conductors in it.

Colin Bignell

[dennis]

I would expect a cable tray to be suspended above the ceiling or around the walls. Lights may be an exception as you need to have some flex on the ceiling to allow them to be moved.

[Arfa Daily]

Thanks Colin. That's all interesting stuff.

Arfa

[Arfa Daily]

The pre-existing cables were all tied up within the roof structure, as I understand it, and it was the inspector's contention that at least this practice should have been followed with the new cables.

Arfa

[Andrew Gabriel]

Indeed. Sometimes the wires are tie-wrapped to the (non-earthed) metal ceiling suspensions.

[John Rumm]

Its also worth noting that once the suspended ceiling is in place, retrofitting a cable tray or similar is going to be a right PITA.