Plumbing again ... And an update on Arfa's Burger Joint ...

[Arfa Daily]

OK. Another question about the incompatibility of various waste sizes ...

Following on from the questions last week about the macerator, I now have one of the Chinese - or whatever they are - Saniflo copies from Plumbworld, and I have to say that the build quality and range of fittings and bits and pieces that it's supplied with, all seems very good. Now, connecting it up. The existing waste plumbing that I have to finally reach for connection into, has all been done in 32 mm solvent pipe and fittings. The macerator installation instructions suggest that 32 mm is a good size for connecting that up also, so I would like to use similar 32 mm solvent pipe and fittings to do this. Except, as the pipe run is quite long, and has several right-angled bends in it, I feel that it would be a good idea to have some sections that could be removed, just in case of a blockage. I know I said when we were discussing this before, that the waste would be predominantly just dirty water, but with the best will in the world, sooner or later, we're going to get a clog up. So, here's the question. Is the OD of "32 mm" solvent pipe, the same as that of "32 mm" push-fit pipe ? If so, could I then use solvent weld pipe for the main straight runs, but have occasional push-fit bends, for instance, on that pipe, that would allow me to 'open up' or remove sections, if the need arose ?

Any particular makes known to work in this way? I'm looking at B&Q for local convenience, but am open to other suggestions. They seem to have a range called 'Flo-past' or some such, which *appears*, at least, to have solvent and push-fit variants ...

General update on the burger joint progress. Front of house and kitchen floors are down. I've almost finished the major project of the counter now. What a beast it is, and what a bitch it's been to construct ! Char grill has arrived, and is being gas-connected this week. Fryers and chip scuttle arriving tomorrow. Extraction and filtration is in. Fridges and freezers are arriving. Have sourced an excellent fully guaranteed 100% Aberdeen Angus burger with full traceability from the herd to the butcher. Signage and other allied stuff is done. Menus are at the printers. Daughter has the website under construction. Hoping to be open by the end of the month, so watch this space !! d:-)

Arfa

[dom]

The usual trick on this sort of run is to use swept-tee's in some of the places where you would have a 90 degree bend, and to insert a solvent weld screw-cap end in the "unused" leg of the tee. No need to change from solv-weld anywhere.

This is a good thing, as unlike comventional drainage, you will have a (small) positive pressure in the pipes - and a greater chance of leaks. Solv-weld is definitely the thing to use here.

Where you use the screw-cap ends, it's also a good idea to screw the cap down with just a smear of appropriate silicon sealant (such as LS- X).

Remember to have points so you can fully drain off any trapped water when you do need to strip-down, and room for buckets to fit underneath.

Also try to arrange for the main vertical rise to be very close to the pump, and then go gently (saniflo recommend 100:1) downhill from there.

If you must change from solv-weld, 32mm solvent-weld pipe will couple with 32mm compression fittings, but NOT with 32mm push fit fittings (or at least that's the case with 40mm, so I assume 32mm is the same).

[Arfa Daily]

All excellent info and advice Dom. Thanks.

Arfa

[John Rumm]

Nope - they are deliberately incompatible. You will need a universal (i.e. compression) to get them to mate successfully.

(SWMBO suggested some soft music and chocolates while reading this over my shoulder!)

Best solution is to use some swept tee fittings in place of an elbow. Then fit a rodding eye to the unused side of the tee.

They all do - but they are different sizes. So its easier to stick with one all the way through. Solvent with rodding access is probably best.

Did you get your black and white tiles?

Good luck!

[Arfa Daily]

Thanks for that John. That seems to be the consensus so far. As to the tiles, no, not exactly ... We finished up with a vinyl that is rated as 'heavy domestic / light commercial.' The guy who supplied it is one of our old regular cafe customers, and he was quite honest about how robust he thought it was going to be. At the end of the day, if it lasts a year before we have to replace it, we will be happy. The guy is insisting that he wants to be a customer again when we get it open, so I guess it would not be in his best interests to sell us something that was really poor.

Still, it achieves the effect that we wanted, and I guess it has two chances. Hard to say how durable it will be when the great unwashed start trampling it, but it seems pretty robust and decent quality, from what I can see.

Thanks for your good wishes. They're appreciated.

Arfa

[mike]

I don't know whether their 32mm/solvent weld is reliable but from personal experience, I would avoid anything from FloPlast / FloFit:

that, I printed out pages of complaints from Screwfix's forums and sent them to the MD. His PA asked that I return the fixings for investigation and told me that they'd had problems with FP in the past but thought they'd been cured. Result: full refund, =A350 voucher (decent of SF but would've prefered not to have to rip the kitchen out), confirmation that seals were once gain defective and that SF were re-opening the matter with FP.

I think some of the older complaints have disappeared from the SF website forum since the makeover but some are still there. People generally seem not to hold them in high esteem.

[stuart noble]

We have 5 fast food joints within 100 yards of my house, but I still can't get a decent burger, or what I consider edible chips. If I could, I'd be round there like a shot, (almost) regardless of price.

[Nightjar]

In a commercial pumped installation, I would go for BS 3505 (imperial) or DIN 8061 (metric) plastic pipe, which is guaranteed to cope with pressures of 15 bar in the size you need. It is available with a wide range of solvent weld and threaded fittings, including valves that you can use to create drain-down points. It is also more substantial than waste pipe and better able to cope with accidental misuse.

There are plenty of suppliers, but this is an easy site to find the different pipes and fittings on.

Bignell

[Arfa Daily]

Thanks Colin. I'll take a look.

Arfa

[John Rumm]

Nope - they are deliberately incompatible. You will need a universal (i.e. compression) to get them to mate successfully.

(SWMBO suggested some soft music and chocolates while reading this over my shoulder!)

Best solution is to use some swept tee fittings in place of an elbow. Then fit a rodding eye to the unused side of the tee.

They all do - but they are different sizes. So its easier to stick with one all the way through. Solvent with rodding access is probably best.

Did you get your black and white tiles?

Good luck!

[John Rumm]

have used them once when I could not get speedfit. Can't say I was very fond of them. They seems to require lots of force to get the pipe to enter and seat in the right position and hence there was a danger of dislodging an O ring. I know a mate has a couple embedded in a stud wall

- although they are on plastic pipe which seems to generate fewer complaints.

[Nightjar]

On 06/06/2011 01:02, Arfa Daily wrote: ...

In the clean areas of my factory I used a heavy commercial grade vinyl. It was about 3mm thick and got regular heavy foot traffic - up to 22 hours a days at times. That lasted about 10 years before falling foul of metal chair legs eating their way through their plastic ends and then into the vinyl.

Colin Bignell