Eurostar woes

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "Dave Liquorice" saying something like:

Bloke in the neighbouring village had a snowplough attached to an old ex-Army Bedford. It lay in his yard all year, doing nothing, until a fall of snow, then he'd take it out to clear the road between the two villages. The villages lay each in different counties, so he'd bill one Council then the other for the same trip and return, respectively. Quids in, he was.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "ARWadsworth" saying something like:

[Roger Mills]

No-one is suggesting doing it on a regular basis - only in extremis. There wasn't a problem on the English side, so all you need is a train in each direction swapping locos just on the French side of the tunnel. OK, there's a bit of shunting to do - and maybe a delay of 30 minutes. But if you were a passenger, wouldn't you rather have that - instead of being stuck in the tunnel for hours on end or not being able to travel at all?

Airlines invariably look after their passengers better than Eurostar when delays do occur.

[tinnews]

Do you *really* believe that last bit? :-)

[cynic]

I asked in here because there are a good number of electrical and other engineers with their heads screwed on right!

[js.b1]

Traction motor cooling is provided via air intake. Air intake effective area was reduced by buildup of small particulate snow. Tunnel conditions involved a 30oC+ jump in air temperature, traction motor overheat protection trips.

A quick solution would be a separate air intake duct closed, thus maintained snow free, except for through-tunnel running - and perhaps using the ram air effect of the train passing through the tunnel. Quick is of course if designed in at the outset, later changes might make it very difficult.

An alternative might be a CFD study of the train in free air & in tunnel to see if an optimum baffle shape can be made to prevent snow ingress or use ram air to remove snow, aid cooling etc. Low pressure areas turned into high pressure preventing snow deposition - allowing a degree of bypass airflow to get rid of snow yet maintain cooling by dispensing with filters. "Vents" can be improved upon once you have either velocity or a train pushing through a relatively close fitting tunnel.

[geoff]

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)" writes

The costs involved in using shunters to get the carriages through the tunnel?

Insignificant in comparison to the costs of the way they handled the situation, tens of thousands, IWHT

[geoff]

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)" writes

The service came to a complete halt, if you didn't notice

Yes, but it happened

The hardware (the two shunters shown towing the train on the newsfeed ) exist

[geoff]

In message , ARWadsworth writes

Just a minute, I thought the french customs were actually on strike on one of the days

[geoff]

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)" writes

You are the only one steadfastly sticking to the "after"

Everyone else is talking about "during"

Which, politically they now have to do anyway

[The Natural Philosopher]

And your evidence that that WAS teh fault?

Not saying you are wrong, but no one else has suggested this mechanism.

>

[The Natural Philosopher]

Th pilot was concerned that wet slush on the wings would once up to altitude, cause icing.

Maybe he was over cautious. Maybe he was wrong, thats what he told me, and I was happy to wait the snow storm out.

[js.b1]

Colleague at Siemens who has seen the same in the past one-and-a-half decades over several locomotive power units. It may not be, but he cited it as by far the most likely cause.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

And just where do they magic the spare locos and staff to do this from? And if they knew the trains were going to break down they'd have stopped them before they went into the tunnel. So just how would you know when you'd have to swap locos?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Think you're missing the point again, Geoff. Where do they magic the shunters and the staff to operate them from? Either you keep them on standby 50 weeks of the year and let the trains travel at full speed - or you use them all the time and add an hour per journey. Either option adds considerably to the operating costs.

[Cod Roe]

Whilst I agree it is a likely explanation, surely the snow would melt fairly quickly, then the overheat can be reset, and the train can carry on, it shouldn't be stranded. Also why would that take the auxiliaries down, the reports suggest they lost hotel services, and surely the traction motor overheat trip shouldn't take those out?

[geoff]

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)" writes

Isn't it time you stopped digging that hole ?

[geoff]

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)" writes

Well, they magic'd them up from somewhere to tow the unit and carriages which was clearly visible on the newsreel they shot from a helicopter - they were there. Did you not see the shunting units pulling the whole train on TV ?

I think that there is a general "f*ck the operating costs" reaction

[Huge]

Having once been stranded in Montreal (in February) for 29 hours by BA, Boeing, Rolls Royce and some f****it retarded software developer, I'd be inclined to say he's right. But that almost certainly doesn't apply to low cost airlines and, frankly, I wish those who've paid next to nothing for their ticket would shut the f*ck up when it all goes pear shaped. What did they expect?

[Roger Mills]

If you read what I wrote, you don't need spare locos, *or* staff. The French locos stay and the French side and pull the next train back to Paris or Brussels. They don't have a problem as long as they don't enter the tunnel. The English locos return to London with the trains they have picked up on the French side. The drivers either stay with their loco or swap to the other one to complete their scheduled journey.

You'd have thought that the fact the 3 or 4 had got stuck might just have provided a clue! I'm not suggesting that they should always pre-empt the first breakdown - but simply that they should have a fast recovery plan - involving swapping locos - which can be implemented as soon as this type of problem arises.