Any competent sparks being called out to a job where someone has complained of a "live" situation, should know how to go about dealing with that before he starts any work on it.
Live line working is another matter..Hang on I saw a bloke from the leccy co doing this by himself recently!, perhaps he was some sort of alien with plastic skin!..
Oddly enough we've had some complain about shocks..static from the bloody carpets and their man made soles;!....
I used to do some high voltage work on medical equipment years ago, (policy was that you must have an observer(rescuer!) with you during high voltage tests).
One time I'd run my set of tests, gone to hit the off switch - and gotten a shock off it!
This was a fairly serious bit of kit (25KV), had been involved in an "incident" and had been removed for repair (by me).
In a state of disbelief I had to use the room isolator to cut the power (I had checked that front panel had a good solid earth immediately before commencing the HV tests).
In fact the conditions had been just right for me to pick up a substantial static charge - and then earth myself via the off switch.
|!> Oddly enough we've had some complain about shocks..static from the |!> bloody carpets and their man made soles;!.... |! |!I used to do some high voltage work on medical equipment years ago, |!(policy was that you must have an observer(rescuer!) with you during |!high voltage tests). |! |!One time I'd run my set of tests, gone to hit the off switch - and |!gotten a shock off it! |! |!This was a fairly serious bit of kit (25KV), had been involved in an |!"incident" and had been removed for repair (by me). |! |!In a state of disbelief I had to use the room isolator to cut the |!power (I had checked that front panel had a good solid earth |!immediately before commencing the HV tests). |! |!In fact the conditions had been just right for me to pick up a |!substantial static charge - and then earth myself via the off switch.
Its milliamps which kill not volts. Above 30 ma is dodgy.
And this kit could have delivered it. I got a shock for reasons I couldn't instantly explain, and so I was imagining a flashover or insulation breakdown.
In article , snipped-for-privacy@gglz.com writes
We used to have to work on these sort of voltages on colour TV's in customers homes!..
Single handed too!, and provided you kept the other one in yr pocket;)
In article , Dave Fawthrop writes
Yep, u need the volts to push the mil's;)...
Could also be that if called to investigate a possible hazard it is best to have the diagnosis confirmed by a second opinion before telling the customer that all is well, problem solved, false alarm etc.
Hi,
Thanks to all those who have posted.
I contacted the builders that did my bathroom and they said that they will be around soon ... I am still waiting. However, reading some post I see the seriousness of this situation.
As has been recommended I will be contacting a local electrician to come and check the installation as I am worried that my two children will just forget and use the water whilst barefooted.
I am thinking that maybe this problem has always been there, except that before because the floor was vinyl I never noticed it. Now that it is marble flooring then I can notice it. Could this be the case?
The tubes are copper and I have not seen any earth cables as I have seen in other houses.
As far as the electrical floor heating is concerened, I doubt if it is the reason, since it has not been on at all since installation. It is switched off from the RCD (as I have to wait for 7 days for the tile adhesive to dry). I cannot see how it could be the cause if there is no current going to the floor heating cable. Am I right thinking this?
In any case, first thing tomorrow I will be calling an electrician to see what the problem is. What worries me is that they will come up with extra work that I need doing (it happened to me before) when in fact I didn't need that work done !!!
Anyway, this is too important not to get it fixed urgently.
Regards
I checked the cylinder tank, where the pipes come out to the bathroom and there is an "earth" cable connected, although I have no idea what it is connected to as i cannot see the cable end.
Exactly the same thing happens when I touch the bath taps and also with a separate power shower in the bathroom. I get a strong tingling sensation when touching the water whilst barefooted.
The RCD is new and you're right it does not have an earth connection. What i meant initially is that the Earth wire from the main fuse box was cut at the RCD end, so it does not connect to anything ! Basically, the attached image is a diagram of what is connected now. The thing that looks wrong to me is that I imagine that at least all the earth cables should be connected together.
Please see
In article , snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com writes
Odd but I do rather suspect some "leakage" through the floor rather then from the taps.
You really need to get a meter onto the taps and reference that back to a reference earth like the PME system earth at the mains incomer, then you can see if there is any real voltage being developed there.
An alternative would be to stick an earth wire run back to that point onto the tap and see if the problem disappears or remains. If it goes away then there is a serious problem with the mains wiring, if it says then its some sort of leakage in the underfloor pipes. Are they metal or plastic?..
ok, then your bathroom is dangerous and you need to remove all electricital supply from it as a temporary measure, and forget about using the shower till this is fixed.
a) thats the most likely cause of the problem b) its far from safe c) you need to remove electrical supplies to bathroom anyway
NT
could it be the UFH even though it is switched off at the RCD? How can there be a leak from it if there is no current passing to the UFH? Sorry if this is a stupid question but it seems logical that if there is no current passing to it then it could not be the problem.
Thanks
As I understand it, UFH is shielded with an earth cable so that if it gets damaged the live heating wire contacts the earth and the RCD or whatever gets tripped. If you don't have the earth connected it'll seek some other way. It's possible that the wire was damaged and the builder found the only way to not blow the fuse was to remove the earth... I'd disconnect the UFH completely.
...and using your hands or your childrens' to test for tingling through the water is a really really stupid idea.
I can't believe you originally posted your concerns about this nearly 3 days ago and you are still on a NG trying to work it out. As others have stated, it is potentially a killer made worse by the fact you have young kids who sometimes forget and use the taps. Get the installers back today ASAP.
I think the builder is probably not experienced with underfloor heating. It was odd to me when i said to him that I thought the earth wire from the UFH should be connected somewhere, that he said to me that there was no need. If you look at the diagram i sent before at
It would be a stupid idea to use my childrens hands to test for that ! that is why i don't do it. I said that I was afraid that they may forget and go barefooted to the bathroom and use the water. Anyway. all the electricity is now switched off.
thanks
On 19 Apr, 11:22, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote: NT:
If it gets no live feed, then it wont be the cause, but we/you dont know whether its getting a live feed or not. The fact that the RCD is switched off does not guarantee no live feed. Bear in mind a)the standard of wiring b) they may have decided to bypass the RCD to get the ufh to function
- we already know they removed the earth connections c) plus the symptoms point to the ufh as the most likely cause - but its not possible to be any more precise without more information.
For now you just need to remove power from the ufh by disconnecting the power feed, and if a meter shows your taps still arent at ground potential, then removing power to whatever other circuits until there is no more power on the taps would at least reduce the risk further. Ass covering: only do stuff if you know how to do it safely.
And as someone else said, dont stick your paw on it to see if it tingles!
I guess to cover everyone's ass I'd best say just switch the CU off, as you need at least some idea what youre doing if you go down the isolate it yourself route, and isolating the fault wont make it safe.
Using the shower would be really dumb, I assume you wont be doing that.
As for the builders, from what you say it sounds like theyre dicking about with your and your family's life.
NT
The UFH could be a red herring but it really does need to be earthed and it suggest a general poor quality of workmanship.
Smart move (finally)
Anyone have any thoughts on whether the builder should have the HSE called in on them, given that they've known about this and left their customer in a potentially fatal situation ?
Sure, the builder won't want to work for you any more, but by the sounds of it, that could be a bonus right now.
In message , Colin Wilson writes
That was going through my mind too.
Trip the RCD
Now that "does" add up;) NPI...
Still suspect it a leakage problem than any current as such through the taps, but a meter check against a known good earth will prove that out and had better be done soon!..
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