That would indeed be it. Y'know that stuff in plaster wot reacts with water? It's called 'gypsum'. As in, British Gypsum
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Yer Polack calls plastering 'gipsowanie' or (more usually) 'tynkowanie' (I shan't bore you with the pronounciation, but it's nothing like how you'd read those letters in English; nor with the trade distinctions between the two words, which I'm none too sure of myself anyway). And seeing or hearing the word 'gypsum' in a plahr-stering context (accompanied by the phrase "loadsozloties" ;-), and knowing yer Deutschers call it "Gips" (and many of them will've done building jobs in Germany, and we all know English is just German with a Norman-French built on to it ;-) yer Polack further convinces himself that 'gyps' - with the right hand gestures - will do fine to get taken on as a cheapie spread.
Like anywhere, "it depends"; there are chancers, shirkers, and damn-hard workers in every country and line of business. 45 years under imposed Communism (relevant popular joke: 'Employment here is based on two simple pretences: we pretend to work, and they pretend to pay us') has made the adjustment to a market economy harsh, and people react to such major changes in life circumstances in widely differing ways - and their surroundings, upbringing, and experiences have a significant influence. But it's easier to get people used to lower wages and harsher conditions to work hard: by fair means or (as in employment-agency exploitation) foul. It's not so long ago (70s, 80s) that there were substantial numbers of English tradespeople guest-working in Germany ("Boys From The Blackstuff" was one popular-culture reflection of this phenome...)
T'Palace Of Culture wasn't warmly received during Communist times - it was a 'gift' imposed by the USSR (in the not-quite-benign figure of Stalin) as part of the 'you're part of the greater Eastern Bloc now, sunshine' policies. The standing joke (yes, humour was always one way of coping ;-) ran thus: "Where's the best view in Warsaw? Why, from the Palace Of Culture, of course; it's the only place you can't see the Palace Of Culture." But I don't know how it's been transformed in the last 15 years...
You get your crap builders/tradesmen from the rest of Europe/world just like you get them from the UK. Taking one example doesn't mean much.
Eastern Europe because they do work longer shifts while your Brits prefer to moan. These guys on the whole are prepared to work because they want to make as much as they can to send home. The same with Brits who used to work out in Germany (and were cheaper than local labour). Back then the Germans complained the Brits were doing them out of work.
As for standards, again it depends. I've seen some excellent work done by E. European guys and some extremely shoddy.
As for Brit plumbers losing work, sorry guys but considering the sums we pay to tradesmen (in London esp) I don't think many people are going to be crying for you. ;-)
Yes, I've appreciated that one can forget about attempting pronunciation of written Polish unless one has someone to explain for quite some time. After several trips, I began to get the sense of some words, but it seemed to get complicated as the additional letters come into play. The 'L'with stroke through the upright (not sure of the name) seems to do especially interesting things.
If you aren't finding Polish challenging enough these days, then head a little north east (and no I don't mean Birmingham - they have their own language - some might say speech impediment) and have a go at Finnish.
So back to food then. Making the sandwiches.
Mind you, I did see DIY involvement in travel today. While making my way through terminal 3 at Heathrow this afternoon having been on the cattletruck that BA sends to and from Scotland and then going to the relative tranquility of SAS, I passed Mr Richard Branson's part of the terminal. There it was. He has DIY Check-in. In bright red. Is this a new brand of tools? Are we really ready for the dustbags on our power sanders to be replaced by ladies knickers? He's quite good at marketing, but I think has perhaps realised that discretion is the better part of valour.
I nearly went over and asked how they deal with items like hacksaws and cordless screwdrivers, but thought better of it.
So what's the difference between a good boiler and one that won't be worth repairing? £100?
Not that expensive either way.
Not a big saving either.
Is it? I've seen several installations with TRVs on the rads and no room stat. The fact remains that CORGIs can charge what they like at the moment and, in a market economy, why shouldn't they? But I simply don't believe that the cost of materials makes much difference either way. I have seen British Gas cut corners by running pipework as the crow flies, with no regard for the layout of the house, but the sub-contractors probably have no option when they're only getting a third of what the customer has been quoted.
"So what's the difference between a good boiler and one that won't b
worth repairing? £100?"
I recommend a boiler that costs me £900. You can buy a boiler from b q for £350.
"Is it? I've seen several installations with TRVs on the rads and n room stat."
What do you mean is it? Are you questioning me? Do you have th qualification? I stated the facts about the regs it isn't apropriate t question the facts. Look them up if you don't want to take my word fo it. If you can't quote chapter and verse kindly don't sow doubt i readers minds about what I have said, it isn't fair to me I give fre advice here and am happy to be challenged legally but not otherwise. I is not a stance to make an argument from regs are regs are regs. Neithe is "I've seen it done this way in many homes" an argument. Right i right. How it is done may not be right so you can't quote it in discussion about what should be done.
That is unless you want to talk politics. I'm only talking about wha we have to do with the rules we have to abide by.
Can't you be questioned then? I'm merely saying that in at least 2 recent installations I've seen the old room stat has actually been removed, and TRVs fitted to all the rads. As both were done by supposedly reputable local firms, I assume they would not have deliberately flouted the regulations. I even questioned it on here, and I quote Andy's Hall's response. ====================================================================== While not wishing to get into a debate about what works and what doesn't and what is and isn't good practice, I took a look through the statutory instrument, the approved document to part L1 and some of the good practice guides. I drew the following conclusions:
- The statutory instrument talks in very general terms about requirements using words like "reasonable provision" and essentially empowers the secretary of state to issue Approved Documents which are not part of the legislation but guidelines..
- In the introduction to the Approved Documents it is stated that they are guidance.
"Approved Documents are intended to provide guidance for some of the more common building situations. However, there may well be alternative ways of achieving compliance with the requirements. Thus there is no obligation to adopt any particular solution contained in an Approved Document if you prefer to meet the relevant requirement in some other way."
The last sentence is in heavy type.
- In section 1.37 it states "requirements would be met". If this document were prescriptive then it would say "requirements shall be met". Likewise in section 1.38 it says "A way of demonstrating", not "the way of demonstrating" and "temperature control could be" not "temperature control must be". In section 1.41, referring to interlocks the word "should" not "must" is used.
- In section 1.46, an alternative way of showing compliance is to use Good Practice Guide 302. This does indeed suggest that room thermostats be used as part of a boiler interlock arrangement but also comments on boiler energy management systems as being suitable as well.
From all of this, I would conclude that room thermostats may be good practice and used as part of demonstrating compliance with Part L1, but I can see nothing in the Approved Document that mandates them and it is certainly a long stretch to say that not having one in a new installation is specifically illegal.
"but I'm merely saying that in at least 2 recent installations I've seen the old room stat has actually been removed and TRVs fitted to all the rads. As both were done by supposedly reputable local firms, I assume they would not have deliberately flouted th regulations. I"
Well they were wrong and this is the reason why. There now must be boiler interlock. In a combi boiler this relates to heating only. Wit trv's alone there is no interlock. The rstat forms the interlock. On regular boiler with indirect domestic hot water the cylinder stat i the interlock.
If they had completeld the bench mark log what could they have answere when it asked was an interlock fitted?
"These are regulations, which are very far from being facts in any meaningful sense of the word."
Well I hope that I have been able to clarify the regs for you in factual sense.
"What the hell is that supposed to mean?" peace means I don't take a argument on the net seriously, in the sense of a type 'a' personality The use of the word is intended to lighten the situation and put i into perspective.
"If you're going to be another self appointed guru, whose words canno be challenged, at least don't go round saying "peace" FFS. "
OK but all I want to say is let's keep it friendly, we're here to shar information. I wrongly responded to you, but I think we've cleared th air and we can continue useful discourse in future. The important thin is sharing of knowledge.
Having worked in Eastern (now central) Europe for many years I would say that they know all about working long, hard hours, I have seen many become very successful through this exact process, their work ethic puts many western Europeans to shame. I was put in an embarrassing position a few years back when I was asked to arrange for a concrete floor finishing crew from Poland to come to the UK so that they could perfect their skills, I had to tell them that their skill were already past the British standard and in fact it could get worse if they picked up some of our "shortcuts". I think you need to look at the type of people you employ and how you treat them.
a) digging holes and other hard labour that seems to put off locals b) anything that involves lots of hitting things - demolishing walls, banging in nails on floorboards, that sort of thing c) seem to have far better sense of balance that me - they will happily scale a roof like a cat or walk across non-floorboarded set of joists and seem surprised when I scream at them to use the safety gear provided.
However they are crap at plastering - they just don't seem to get the concept that I want smooth walls ! :-)
Good point Dr Evil about sensing flow ref interlock, but I don't thin
many of the fitters not using rstats are that clever, most are just no fitting an interlock..
This brings me to another method. Some manufacturers now modulate th boiler direct from rstat (usually a radio one at that). That is i stead of rstat cutting off boiler it just modulates flame. I suppos that would maybe give greater longevity due to less on off cylces, wha 's your view?
Paul
ps call out I had today was a goodun, customer had solved the proble of boiler cycling, she just leaves it on low 24 hours a day 365 days year. She only needed batteries in her radio stat. What an expensiv way to get your batteries changed, call out a gas fitter from 50 mile away on a Friday evening.
That doesn't beast the first customer of the day, he'd beaten up hi boiler (dented the poor thing) because he couldn't get the pilot lit. had a quick go, then tried cooker, no flame, looked at meter... quantu meter out of emergency credit... same customer later in day, thinkin I'd walked off with his gas meter box key phoned my wife drunk (while was performing that most difficult of trained gas fitters tasks puttin
4 new AA batteries into a Drayton) and was abusive to her. NO need fo it, there should be a program on telly called customers from hell
That's what I have, although the room controller is wired to the boiler.
There is an external temperature sensor and then the room controller separately wired to the boiler.
I can alter the endpoints and slope of the weather compensation and then the room controller is factored in as another term. There is then adjustment to alter the relative influence of each.
Modulation will go down to about 3kW at the low end and flow temperature around 35-40 degrees. Below that, the burner can be turned off altogether and triggered back on again if a large rate of temperature fall is noticed.
A good example of there being more than one way to skin a cat. Until regulations are challenged you don't know how robust they are, or whether they make sense at all. And asking the *average* fitter to interpret complex legislation is asking for trouble.
Ok folks, now grab this moment while you can. We have a professional gas fitter crediting Dr Evil with a good point, and he and Andy are not trading insults. Why can't it always be like this?
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