Just wondering if this has happened to anyone else...
Two weeks before our double glazing is due to be installed they've just told us that they can't actually do it for the price that we signed a contract for 2 months ago. They're now saying that they need an extra £746 to do the job. The reason being for something that they openly admit to having not costed up.
Apparently this is a fairly common occurence with double glazing sales. The company we're dealing claim it's only the second time they've had to do it.
I have sort legal advice and have been told that they're plainly in breach of contract, but the installer claims that in their T&C's "the price is subject to a survey". However, the survey was done at the time of signing the contract.
Although they're very apollogetic and have offered to refund our deposit - it's all very annoying and a matter of budgets and principles.
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:58:48 +0100, "RedOnRed" scrawled:
Their problem, not yours.
Bet they say that to everyone.
Then it's up to them to do the survey properly. If they didn't then they're in the wrong.
I'd go with someone else.
If it were me that had misquoted a job, and if it was only the 2nd time I had done it ever in the history of the business, I would write it off as one of those things. If they are asking for more money they have done this before and should be strung up.
You are obviously happy with the company, that is why you chose them. If after the price increase you still think you are getting a good deal, accept the apology and go ahead. If the price increase means you feel you are not getting a good deal, accept their apology, take the refunded deposit and go to another company. Possibly there might be a breach of contract, do you really want all the stress and aggravation of pursuing it?
They make very good windows and have shown me the best product by far. Other then this incident, they're also very good to deal with.
The price is still very good, even after the stealth increase.
The problem is that I still want the work done but at the orginally quoted price. Which is fair enough really.
I don't really want the stress and aggravation of pursuing it, but i've been advised that if I accept my deposit back i'll be cancelling the contract. As they're in breach of contract then I should have case (albeit possibley a very long one) of getting them to do it at the original price.
I should imagine it has and proably fairly often by this company, dispite what they say. I bet there are many people who would just buy the sob story and pay the "increase".
Stand your ground. IANAL but I agree with that advice they are in breach of contract. I doubt you can force them to install at the contracted price and would you want to let such doubtful people into your home?
If you still want to go ahead I'd get detailed, written, information about what they have failed to cost up and compare it very closely with the quote in the contract. I'd then make 110% sure that that missing cost actually appeared or the work done.
Personally I'd have a word with the local trading standards office and see if the company has any "history". If so get my deposit back and make a formal complaint to the TSO and name and shame as much as possible (legally of course).
Quite they are hoping that after a 2 month wait and 2 weeks to go you'll say oh begger it I'll pay. Rather than go through all the sales pitch, hassel and wait involved in starting again with another company.
As it's their fault, but you still want them to do the work, make them an offer! You can plead poverty and say "I want you guys to do the work, I'm impressed with the product and may be able to raise an additional..... but that really is the limit". This way both parties save face. Make sure you leave a bit back though. So if you think that an additional 400 will swing it and you would be happy to pay this, offer 350 so they can barter you up a bit.
Dunno where you live but if it's near Preston, Lancashire, dump this lot and go to Sharbeck Windows. They're just a two-man firm who've been in business since 1978. They're listed in Yellow Pages but they don't actually advertise anywhere as they don't need to - they get all their work through word-of-mouth, personal recommendations from their satisfied customers (and yes, I'm one of them - no affiliation other than that).
Since you have already received legal and negotiating advice in this=20 thread I will pass over those bits, apart from one observation:
The legality issue will rest upon how many visits you have had from the=20 company. The "Subject to Survey" is inevitable and essential when the=20 company sends a salesman to negotiate a deal with the customer.
Here's how it normally works. The salesman establishes your requirements for location and style of=20 window. He measures the apertures and then calculates a price based on=20 these factors. If you agree the price he draws up the contract which you=20 sign. Shortly after this meeting the Surveyor will visit. His job is to=20 verify the technical details of the contract. Are the sizes correct, will= =20 the designs work in the locations specfied, do you need special glass,=20 can the windows be made to the agreed plan? If the salesman has done his job properly, then there will be no need for= =20 amendment. HOWEVER........
There are three main areas that catch salesman out:
1.=09Box sash work
2.=09Bays
3.=09Maximum sizes (for a given style)
There are of course others but they are less common.
The surveyor's data is the basis for the fabrication of the windows, not=20 the salesman's. If the surveyor finds errors, the price is recalculated. Hence "Subject to Survey".
Now, if you only had one visit, salesman/surveyor combined, (happens with= =20 smaller companies) then your original contract has been surveyed and is=20 probably valid. If you had two visits, the second was the survey and your= =20 original contract was -- you know the rest.
If I were in your situation (you like the product and the company but not= =20 the new price) I would follow advice given previously and talk them into=20 a deal they can't refuse. They want your business as much as you want=20 the windows.
Since you have already received legal and negotiating advice in this thread I will pass over those bits, apart from one observation:
The legality issue will rest upon how many visits you have had from the company. The "Subject to Survey" is inevitable and essential when the company sends a salesman to negotiate a deal with the customer.
Here's how it normally works. The salesman establishes your requirements for location and style of window. He measures the apertures and then calculates a price based on these factors. If you agree the price he draws up the contract which you sign. Shortly after this meeting the Surveyor will visit. His job is to verify the technical details of the contract. Are the sizes correct, will the designs work in the locations specfied, do you need special glass, can the windows be made to the agreed plan? If the salesman has done his job properly, then there will be no need for amendment. HOWEVER........
There are three main areas that catch salesman out:
Box sash work
Bays
Maximum sizes (for a given style)
There are of course others but they are less common.
The surveyor's data is the basis for the fabrication of the windows, not the salesman's. If the surveyor finds errors, the price is recalculated. Hence "Subject to Survey".
Now, if you only had one visit, salesman/surveyor combined, (happens with smaller companies) then your original contract has been surveyed and is probably valid. If you had two visits, the second was the survey and your original contract was -- you know the rest.
If I were in your situation (you like the product and the company but not the new price) I would follow advice given previously and talk them into a deal they can't refuse. They want your business as much as you want the windows.
The key thing is in relation to your suggestions is that I did in fact have a combined survey/pricing/contract appointment with them, where they actually came round and measured up and we then sorted out the contract.
Prior to that i'd had a single visit where we'd just discussed a rough price.
I don't really want to have to pay extra when I shouldn't contractually be obliged to, but at the same time accept the point that there's no point in forcing someone into doing a job reluctantly - especially with all the overall cost involved.
I suppose I might ring 'em up cap in hand tomorrow and make out can they meet me half way.
Maybe. The one at Old Stratfart, or even the one at Marston, at about 30 squiddicks a night it's just bearable. Not the one in the shtty centre. I have done this.
Technically I think you could get another company to do the work and sue=20 the original contractor for "loss of bargain" to get the difference in=20 prices, but it's really one for the legal groups. Maybe if you suggest=20 to the original contractor that that's what you might do then they might=20 honour the original price - if they do then just make sure that they do=20 the job properly or it could drag on for ages.
Technically I think you could get another company to do the work and sue the original contractor for "loss of bargain" to get the difference in prices, but it's really one for the legal groups. Maybe if you suggest to the original contractor that that's what you might do then they might honour the original price - if they do then just make sure that they do the job properly or it could drag on for ages.
The only thing is that there quote is very competitive. For example, I rang another company yesterday, gave them the measurements over the phone and they then rang me back with a rough quote for £3000 more then the company upping their price.
I just don't want to be out of pocket for someone elses oversight. Imagine me saying there's actually a couple more windows that I forgot to mention. Well i'd have to pay for those for forgetting to mention them. They've ballsed up so they should incur the costs.
I think that if they made a genuine mistake, then you should go with them at their revised price. If there's actually a contract between you try to compromise. It will cause hard feeling, put yourself in their shoes. Would you expect the best job from someone willingly working for you, or at least working without rancour, or someone you've forced to work for you by means of (legal) threats? If I were them, and I even had a hint of this sort of stuff going on, I'd drop the job immediately, regardless. So they've apologised, and offered to refund your deposit. Sounds fair.
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "RedOnRed" saying something like:
It's hardly their fault your house is awkward to work on. The survey should have picked that up, but I'd be surprised if E&OE wasn't on the contract somewhere.
You could force them to do it for the price, but then they may go out of their way to make loads of anoying mistakes, and really mess you arround. Imagine them accidently smashing a window pane when fitting, and you having to wait 4 weeks for a new one .........
But the buyer holds the money, and wont be paying a cent until everythings shipshape. If theyre sensible.
If I didnt /need/ the work to be done, I would probably write them a letter saying I was very unhappy at this indeed, this was most unprofessional, and would be checking the work they did on (insert date) carefully and thoroughly, and that I was not interested in renegotiating the price already agreed.
If I really needed it done, I'd go for what someoene else suggested, and say grumble grumble, well look at the end of the day I've found =A3300 more but thats all I can do, take it or dont.
Either way be aware its a classic scam, so you know who and what youre dealing with. If you go ahead, do not pay them one single penny until everything is satisfactory, ensure a witness is present at install time, and if they leave with anything left unsatisfactory, take pictures. Do not have any means of payment present on the day in case youre tempted, tell them to send you the bill.
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