Dangerous product alert: Screwfix junction boxes

[Pecanfan]

I've tried telling Screwfix about this, but they don't seem interested. In fact the general 'shoddy goods' level from Screwfix seems particularly high at the moment - not sure if it's just me?!

Anyway - 'Standard Junction Boxes' - I've tried the 20A and 30A jobs (13013 and 12802) and how these meet any relevant BS is beyond me. I've also tried replacements, on the off chance it was a dodgy batch, but same problem - clearly a fundamental design fault. I know you get what you pay for, but these are plain dangerous - don't buy them!

Basically the grub screws cannot be properly tightened since the surrounding brass socket gives way under any reasonable pressure. As can be seen by the picture below, this causes the screws to jump out their threads, creating a hot joint. Sometimes the thread will give way AFTER installation - so even if it seems fine initially, it can fail later down the line:-

the Screwfix version to the Wickes version (both 30A) there's a considerable difference between the two (Wickes on the right).

[Andy Hall]

You might consider telling your local Trading Standards office. They might fire off a letter to Screwfix, and that would have to be given attention.

Two other alternatives would be not to buy this grade of product and get decent MK ones, or perhaps better still to use crimps.

[Pecanfan]

Are crimps really better than junction boxes? What sort of crimps? Am I missing a trick?

Andy

[Richard Sterry]

second photo is too small to make out the differences in quality.

Rick

[mike ring]

"Pecanfan" wrote in news:1108401451.646741@smtp-

1.griffin.com:

Can I second that?

mike

[Lobster]

Are these their cheapo 'Select' branded ones? I used a load of the 20A ones when rewiring a lighting circuit not long ago - can't say I had any problems. I certainly didn't feel I couldn't tighten the screws as much as wanted to.

David

[Mike]

Totally agree. I complained to Screfix some time after I had them and this came to light but they didn't want to know. Threw about 5 away.

Also don't touch "I can't believe it's not nails" at the moment - the mastic cans leak all the gloop out of the back onto the gun.

They really have gone downhill recently.

[Richard]

My kitchen fitter suggested that I use crimps in place of a socket that will be hidden by the new units, rather than any sort of junction box. With a fair amount of scepticism I visited what I hope were a serious electrical suppliers and asked 'vaguely' about crimps for joining cables. Quick as a flash they produced red plastic inline cable crimps of a sort that I am more accustomed to using on my car. They explained that with the proper crimping tool, i.e. a ratchet-type rather than the feeble plier-type, you can achieve a satisfactory joint that does not need to be accessible in the way that screw connections do. Of course you wrap it in tape to increase the rigidity of the joint.

Richard

[Brian Sharrock]

Yes; for in-line jointing of conductors

They come in three(?) colours identifying the gauge of conductor that can be joined .... basically the conducotrs are bared - inserted into the crimp until the insulation buts into the crimp and then you use an apropriate ratchet type crimper to compress the crimp onto the conductor. A rachet-(calibrated) crimper is essential. The crimps should be protected with heatshrink sleeves.

If you're not using crimps ... yes ... its much easier than fiddling with the brass itsy-bitsy screw clamps -often fighting against gravity.

Screwfix shows them on their web-pages.

[Lurch]

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:09:22 +0000, Richard strung together this:

Er, think you should have some sort of exlamation mark or other feature after that to show it is actually a humurous comment. It is a humurous comment, isn't it?

[Andy Hall]

Well...... if you have a situation where you need to make joints in a place that won't be accessible again, then crimps are an approved joint and anything with screw terminals is not.

[Capitol]

I agree with the concept, but IME crimping solid wire with Screwfix red/blue/yellow receptacles and a ratchet tool produces a crap joint. IMO to get a decent crimp with solid wire, you need a hex or AMP type crimp and much thicker walled receptacles. The cheap terminals are just about OK with stranded wire, but again do not achieve the wire grip performance achievable with an industrial crimping system.

Regards Capitol

[Andy Hall]

I didn't say anything about using Screwfix or any other cheap crimps.

Electrical wiring accessories are the *last* place to consider anything less than top quality materials. It is a false economy to use cheap electrical stuff for both reliability and safety reasons.

Obviously one should use best quality branded crimps to the right specification and a properly specified ratchet tool to attach them.

[Andrew Chesters]

...but then the OP was using the cheapest junction boxes this side of a very cheap place...

[Andy Hall]

I rest my case.....

[usenet]

How do you join three (or more) wires together using crimps?

[Pecanfan]

The Wickes ones are about the same price and are far superior quality wise. I know you can get even better ones if you pay more, but cost isn't really the point here. The Screwfix ones are BS marked, which leads you to the conclusion that they might be cheap but *shouldn't* be dangerous. These are dangerous.

Andy

[Pecanfan]

Of the last 5 orders I've placed, every one has resulted in a return or replacement of some description. They just don't care any more. Apparently everything gets packed by machine now too, which explains why my last order had no less than 7 damaged items. It's OK (if annoying) for the likes of me, mainly using them for DIY stuff, I don't see how anyone in the trade could possibly rely on them now though. Shame...

Andy

[Andy Dingley]

But they're still supposed to work ! We have government interference and mandatory standards for such things so that _anything_ with the right marks on it _can_ safely be assumed to be fit for purpose.

Instead we seem to have pointless interferences like Part P, and sometimes the odd dodgy fitting does slip through.

[Andy Hall]

You would think so, wouldn't you?

I am always sceptical about standards because I see too many of them. You have to look carefully at what is and isn't included. I haven't looked at the relevant one here, but it could easily specify terminal sizes and the flame retardant properties of the plastic - who knows.

I *never* consider that something having a "standard" mark, and especially a CE label as being any measure of quality at all. It is yet another example where cheap manufacturers will do the minimum necessary and where they will use the label of a "standard" to imply the product is better than it actually is.

The conclusion, as I've said many times, is to buy decent branded wiring accessories from the major manufacturers and not this cheap junk from DIY places. WIth electrical stuff, a penny pinching decision may well cost lives.