confused about new elec regs

[Christian McArdle]

So who can sign this off? Can you contract yourself to do the testing and signing of the certificate? That would be a laugh!

Christian.

[Tim S]

I'll tell you about my telephone conversations with a couple of local-ish borough authorities: I'll answer your point as far as I can believe at the end...

From my discussions with a local LBA (the friendly helpful LBA, not the crap other one I sounded out too), if Part-P self certification isn't applicable (let's assume DIY) - then the following procedure applies:

Me: Send in Building Notice Application (BNA) + 100quid+VAT, describe all the work I think I'll be doing for the next 1-X years (no time limit on completion of work under a BNA).

Me: Wait 48 hours. Then start job.

Nice LBA: (Randomly if they feel like it) sends an inspector to chat about the job, looks round, whatever.

LBA: Will come and look at first fix. With this LBA, that *can* mean I've wired up all outlets and connected to CU and commissioned (not really a first fix then but they said there is nothing in statute that says I can't do this. I think they assume they can trivially remove a plate here and there to inspect cable size and workmanship and lift the odd floor board. Seems fair enough, because they wouldn't see much more at a real first fix if I'd stuffed the cable down conduit).

Me: Wait. Carry on next room/whatever when I feel like it.

LBA: Maybe visit again to look at further "first fixes"??...

Me: (Much later) Complete all work within the BNA, call in my own "qualified installation inspector" (I think they are happy with any C&G2391) and get a Periodic (must be a periodic, they said) on the whole installation.

Me: Send copy of certificate and a letter to BCO.

LBA: Maybe have one more look - sign off. End of BNA. Job done.

I would add that this is based on a lengthy phone call with the BCO in charge of Part P at the LBA. Hopefully it will work out in practise.

So in essence, they were trying to be helpful and not disrupt DIY. I specifically put the question of whether, if decorating 3 rooms in sequence and doing the electrics in each one, and completing each room fully before starting the next (some time afterwards) would need 3 BNAs (and 3 lots of fees). They said no. One BNA would do.

The other, crappy LBA wanted (effectively) one BNA per job as they wanted a full first fix inspection (at 48 hours notice) with nothing connected - just cable ends hanging out (though they conceded I could replaster over conduit). I'm not sure if they could cope with multiple first fix inspections.

They only "benefit" they offered was that they would arrange an installation inspection (with no extra fees payable by me). Still, the first LBA in the example above seemed more pragmatic and DIY friendly.

So to answer your question, in both cases the BCO signs it off, with one contracting out testing and the other using a suitably qualified person of my choice to provide a test cert as supporting evidence of compliance with building regs.

The friendly LBA didn't say that I couldn't test myself, but I suspect he'd want to see a recent C&G2391 and calibration certs for the instruments.

Random isn't it.

Have you had and feedback from your LBA on how they would handle this?

Cheers

Tim

[Christian McArdle]

But what if you had the C&G and the calibrated test equipment, but hadn't spent 1000 quid getting registered, or hadn't managed to get through the chicken and egg situation (you can't join unless you've already been a member for 2 years).

Christian.

[Tim S]

I interpreted "qualified" as just being in possession of a C&G 2391.

Only the BCO personally needs to be satisfied that the Installation Inspection was done by a "competant" (and the BCO here said qualified) person. The BCO didn't say to me that the inspector needed to be a NICEIC/whatever member (and) with Part-P registration as it's not relevant in this scenario.

I think that this LBA (actually covers my father's house where we're moving to - the one you and many other's helpfully gave me advice on underfloor heating about :) just wants to be sure that whoever does Part P work under a BNA isn't a complete idiot. Demonstrating compliance with the IEE regs in the traditional way seemed to be the way that he wanted to handle the whole thing.

So in your case, if you looked reasonable and presented your credentials to my Dad's BCO then I suspect that he may be willing to accept your test results. Perhaps he would require a 3rd party test on the first occasion to verify - sorry, it wasn't a specific question that I had put to him as I'm about 30 weeks and 500 (+/-) quid away from holding a 2381 and 2391.

What I would do is phone your BCO up and put it to him.

Cheers

Tim

[Christian McArdle]

Certainly, if I'm ever in a position to submit to the BCO, I'll submit a properly filled in test report. I have the equipment, at least unless John's lost it! I don't have C&G, though, just a BEng in electronic engineering.

Christian.

[Tim S]

Worth a try. The whole thing a farce anyway. I'm truly lucky if my Dad's BCO is as reasonable as he sounds. As long as I plan ahead I'll only be paying 117.50 "tax" every few years anyway to keep the paper trail clean.

I don't count the cost of the periodic, because if I did significant work, I'd get one done anyway for my own satisfaction. Unless it were mentally expensive, then I'd do a C&G2381+2391 and hire the equipment.

Not that I'm advocating breaking the law (definately not) but I thought I read (in a book about Building Regs) that the Building Control dept only had something like 6 months to notice and act upon any building work which was missing a required BNA? Is that true?

After which the case was closed and no action could be taken...

A relative's house had a full on dormer conversion (by previous owners) done and we believe that no planning permission or building regs were involved. As it happens, the job was done competantly and PP would almost certainly have been granted anyway and being 20 years ago, no one cares anymore. The roof hasn't fallen off and it's not an issue with the council nor with buying/selling the property.

Cheers

Tim

[James]

This assumes the local authority continue to interpret the rules in the same way. Given the interpretation seems to be very arbitrary, this may an incorrect assumption should the personnel assigned to the work change.

When I was rebuilding a wall the first BCO wanted it doing in a way which was barely practicable. Before the job was fully underway another BCO took on the job. He was far more practical and helpful - and offered a solution which avoided the difficulties. When I pointed out it contradicted what I had previous been told his comment was - "No need to worry, you are making this better than it was before".

James

[Tim S]

Quite. I thought so too. My view is that being helpful is in their interests - more likely to encourage people to do work by the book.

If they get unhelpful, then people are *going* to start ignoring the whole thing.

Heh.

Tim

[Rob Morley]

What thing?

;-)