You may think it's good, I don't. I would say that twice that is good.
No, that's exceptionally poor.
By you? That is hardly the metre stick of quality information, now is it?
I don't.
It strikes me that you are the pot calling the kettle black.
You really don't know.
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:-)
Somebody, probably IMM said
12l/m is probably acceptable in a 3* hotel. For 4* and above they would probably fail their annual check if the showers were this wimpy.
I repeat: "12 l/m for a shower is good". He is not fitting out a hotel.
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It's average for a poor shower. Most people who have combis have never experienced a decent shower.
But many are also satisfied with those electric dribbles.
That's rich coming from you...
A good plumber's answer. 'It's good enough for the likes of you' because he doesn't know any better.
Nor a hostel.....
;-)
Oh FFS folks, it's decent enough. Sure if you have a panel affair with water cannon at all corners or a foot-diameter rose with 1/4" holes in it you'll need more: you'll also use more water and energy to drive it. I suggest[1] that for the average user 12l/m represents a good balance between performance on the one hand and economy and ecology on the other.
FWIW I just measured my own shower's flow rate: it's exactly 12l/m. That's from a pumped storage cylinder. I wouldn't give you spit for an electric shower but I'm more than happy with the flow rate of this one, and sometimes turn the flow down a bit to make it easier to stand up under it ;-) All the people for whom I've fitted showers with similar flow rates, or who already have such showers fitted, have expressed satisfaction with them.
Yes Dave, it is a plumber's answer but not, I hope, because I don't know any better but because good enough for the customer is good enough for me. If someone wants a water cannon I'll fit one, if they're happy to pay what it costs to install and run.
[1] even if it means agreeing with You-Know-Who :-)
In the US, Japan and NZ, they use large output instantaneous water heaters for large continuous flow rates. To do it via hot water storage would require a commercial sized storage cylinder, which is super expensive. IT is cheaper to install and saves considerable space using instant hot water.
Mr Cranium should not be answering posts on topics he knows nothing about. The OP might actually think he knows what he is talking about.
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I have no experience of either Japan or NZ, but I have a fair bit of knowledge on US water heating systems. Large output, instantaneous water heaters are _much_ less common than large storage cylinders, even in new construction..
The last cylinder we installed (in the US) had a capacity of about 200 litres, the one it replaced was about 160. Both had integral gas-powered burners and both provided hot water at mains pressure. Mains pressure in our US house is considerably greater than the pressure in our UK home.
We had seriously considered switching to an instantaneous heater - until we saw the price. It was much less expensive to use a cylinder.
Sheila
....On the good ship Plowman they all did sail ....he was the skipper to no avail ....he sent the crew atop the mast ....until he spouted to them at last ....I'll keele haul ye, I will be jabers ....so cut the masts and make em into cabers
....because of cabers the ship did wreck ....I have my cabers said cap'n, so what the heck ... the breaking of law the police did pursue ....Cap'n Plowman was dragged into public view
....the judge did say in all his day ....a case so bad he did not sit ...."the mans a fool a will commit" ....the judge, he screamed, "an idiotic fool" ....the capn' now resides as uk.d-i-y newsgroup tool
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For large continuous flows instantaneous is the only way. A 200 litre cylinder would be empty in a few minutes. The instant water heater can run all week and still supply the high flowrates.
In practice, we don't find this to be the case. Perhaps it's because the hot water temperature is typically higher than in the UK, so there's more cold water mixed in when showering/drawing a bath? We've had no problem doing load after load of wash (in a giant-size toploader), running the dishwasher (which draws hot, not cold water), AND being able to use the shower.
Again, we DID consider switching to instantaneous, but to get similar capacity would have cost significantly more than the cylinder. During the same period we also had to replace the cylinder in our UK house - our budget simply wouldn't allow us the extravagance of switching to instantaneous heaters.
Sheila
One poster was mentioning high flow power jet showers, which consume a lot of water, that the average US combined cylinder and gas water heater could not cope with.
We have a 'massage' shower head - when it's set to pulse, you have to take care not to bruise yourself. The US is a big place, though - I can only speak from my own experience, in the Northeast. It may be different elsewhere.
Sheila
Fine. I'd not argue with you, if that's what you want, but only the 'one answer fits all' approach of our resident wanker. Who seems to think because it's good enough to sell it *must* satisfy everyone. As does, apparently, the average electric shower. If you believe the ads, which he does.
I like a high volume shower which washes you clean - not high pressure, which seems to be for the sensation. My Aqualisa is fed off a storage system via 22mm pipe. And it's super. And you can't get that sort of flow rate with most combis.
Could be. I've got enough head not to need a pump - noisy things.
Err, I shower to get clean. And enjoy the experience. So want an adequate flow at low pressure rather than what some others may be told they want. So in my case about 20 l/m or more. And it's easily achieved.
Oh - and such a system also fills a bath quickly.
Err, so now you seem to be admitting that the average UK combi *can't* supply what is needed? Praise be to god.
Hint. With the average UK storage cylinder at full temperature you'll get a nice high volume low pressure shower which gets you clean - and gives a very nice experience - long before it runs out.
Drivel at work again. He's back to 12 litres/minute and talking large continuous flow.
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