Wiring guage and amps

[Mulan]

Is this right for wiring?

14 gauge with 2 wires for lights and small appliances power outlets to a 20 amp breaker 12 gauge with 3 wires for the fridge, microwave, diswaher to a 20 AMP breaker 8 gauge with 3 wires for the stove top, oven, dryer to a 40 Amp breaker

New panel size - do I add up the number of circuits needed and their amps? e.g.

stove 40AMP + oven 40+ dryer 40+ light circuit 20 + small appliances

20+ fridge 20+ diswasher microwave garbage disposal 20 for a total of 200 AMP box needed? OR can I combine the stope top and oven for a total of 160???

Thanks for your help

[hallerb]

get a 200 amp new main with the maximum nuber of breaker slots available. service entrance cable and meter can must be replaced when upgrading to larger amp main panel

14 gauge wire is for 15 amps max

12 gauge for 20 amp max

kitchen outlet circuits must be GFCI protected.

[zxcvbob]

no, but you're kind of close.

12 or 14 gauge wire for lights and convenience outlets. 14 gauge wire requires a 15A breaker. You can use a 20A or a 15A for #12 wire. (I use #14 wire and 15A breakers for lighting circuits and for light-duty but dedicated outlets, and I use #12 wire and 20A breakers for all convenience outlets and appliance outlets.

You need at least two 20A circuits for the kitchen.

Yes, although #6 Aluminum might be cheaper if it's a long run. The dryer should probably be on a 30A circuit rather than 40A, and can use #10 wire.

No. there are calculations in the back of the code book that tell you the minimum service size.

There's a "tap rule" that lets you combine the stove and oven on one circuit, I don't remember the details; it's very specific, but it will save you some money on big copper wire. (My pain pills for my bad back just kicked in and I don't trust my memory.)

With an electric stove and electric dryer (what about your water heater?) you might need more than a 100A panel. You certainly don't need a 200A, although you might want a 200A to give you lots of room for expansion. Take a look at the 125A panels that I think are made for mobile homes. 125A is a nice size, imho. I installed a 150A when I upgraded the service in my old house, but the load calculations said I only needed a 70A service. (that was before I added the shop w/ air compressor and welder.)

I use aluminum wire for most things over 30 amps, and copper for everything else. (I use copper for the big stuff too if it's a short run.)

Hope this helps!

Best regards, Bob

[zxcvbob]

Trust me, you don't want the refrigerator protected by a GFCI.

Bob

[Mulan]

Thank you, just to clarify this would be a third breaker panel for a second kitchen. The main one upstairs is already full and this area is running off a smaller older breaker panel.

Do I need 40 Amps for the stove and oven? Do lights and power outlets run on 15 or 20 AMPS?

The lights > get a 200 amp new main with the maximum nuber of breaker slots

[Mulan]

Thank you!

Since the breaker panel part of it scares me but I have been "apprentice" to a lot of wiring installation for outlets, smoke detectors and lights. I think I can install all the wiring back to where the panel goes and then call in an expert for the mains to panel installation. My budget doesn't give me any other option. Maybe an electrician would not be willing to do that though.

The water heater is on the other side of the house and has gas. There is gas in the room but I was given the electric stove top and oven and can't afford gas appliances.

I was given the heater unit and all the cedar wood for a sauna too that someone tore out that I thought about sticking in the basement - any idea how much power that takes or if it would be 110 or 220?

I hope your back feels better there is nothing worse than back pain

zxcvbob wrote:

[RBM]

Only kitchen counter outlets are required to be GFCI protected

[RBM]

The amperage varies by appliance, but all the above now require 4 wire circuits

[HeatMan]

Sort of...

If it's within 6 feet of the sink (read 'water'), it has to be GFCI protected.

[hallerb]

I know to never GFCI a fridge provided the outlet is behind the fridge so it cant be used for anything else.

Honestly I think you should get a pros opinion before you begin as to the capacity of your main panel to handle the new sub panel.

sadly copper price has skyrocketed today:( because of this it might be cheaper to buy a gas stove at a second hand shop and gas dryer too.

the electric dryers cost to operate is going to kill you, same for electric hot water tanks, low capacity and high operating expense

[RBM]

ALL kitchen counter outlets MUST be GFCI protected

[zxcvbob]

No they don't. The one for the fridge *should not* be protected. If you want to be a stickler about it, use a simplex receptacle for the fridge to indicate that it's a dedicated outlet.

The 110V outlet behind the stove (it's there in case you want to install a gas stove) would not need to be protected. Same for an outlet for a built-in microwave. And that wall outlet way over there on the opposite wall, by the breakfast area.

Best regards, Bob

[RBM]

Bob, refrigerator outlets and outlets for stove ignition are not counter outlets, which is why they don't have to be GFCI protected. I repeat All kitchen counter outlets MUST be GFCI protected

[zxcvbob]

Oops. I didn't see the word "counter" in there. I was too focused on "MUST". As the poet always used to say, Sorry 'bout that, Chief.

Bob

[gfretwell]

Bob I don't want to start the pissing contest but these are not serving the counter top. You are thinking about "small appliance circuits". You are right, they can serve stove igniters and fridges without GFCI. It could also be the wall plugs in the dining room.

[gfretwell]

Sorry for the late post

The one that catches people is the counter outlet in the breakfast room. That is GFCI ... if you follow code

[zxcvbob]

As I said in my last post, I overlooked the word "counter". I thought RBM said all kitchen outlets MUST be GFCI protected.

Bob

[Bawana]

My friend in the heating/air business recently told me that electricity is now the lest expensive way to heat. (Philly, Pa.)

I don't know if that's true, but I bet it's close.

[Puddin' Man]

Most of this has been answered, but ...

D>Thank you, just to clarify this would be a third breaker panel for a

Ooooops. This complicates matters aplenty.

Do you comtemplate a new elec. service entrance (pig-tails, etc) for a new box or a new box that is actually to be a sub-box or ???

Start with the specs on the appliance(s).

LIte duty circuits (ie lights, radios, etc) are generally

15A.

No comprehendere, senor.

Then I suspect you are in trouble.

Unless maybe he's your brother-in-law or somesuch ...

...

Seriously, if you have trouble estimating amp loads for your circuitry, it *sounds* like you are "out of your element".

You can afford a 2nd kitchen but not an electrician?

Beware, my friend, for the indications are that you are about to shoot your po' self in the foot? :-)

Good Luck, Puddin'