Wiring for multiple control [4 switches control one set of lights] light switch !!!

Page 2 of 5  
wrote:

black. http://www.idealindustries.ca/products/wire_termination/twist-on/term-a-nut_grounding.php

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

*You can just turn the switches upside down without changing the wiring.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 6/18/2013 4:51 AM, John Grabowski wrote:

The K.I.S.S. solution. I salute thee sir! ^_^
TDD
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Jun 18, 4:32 am, The Daring Dufas <the-daring-du...@stinky- finger.net> wrote:

That was my first approach, but was NOT implementable.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

no, tried that. two reasons. wiring is 14 Awg and a b**** to fuss with, usually marginally too short, and the GND wire appears to be oriented downward.
Unfortunately, the minute I post a question, the solution becomes evident. After measuring the voltages on the switch as I operated several; I found the switch is a simple X reversal. so I only had to swap the two 'input' lines and got the effect I wanted.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 6/18/2013 8:03 AM, Robert Macy wrote:

The pair that connects the 3way and 4way switches in series are called "travelers" and you can install an unlimited number of 4way switches on the pair. When I worked on a Core of Engineers job some years ago, I had to explain and illustrate the operation of 3 and 4way switches to my electrical foreman and superintendent because they were mystified by their operation. So don't feel bad if you had a problem with them. ^_^
TDD
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Jun 18, 9:32 am, The Daring Dufas <the-daring-du...@stinky- finger.net> wrote:

Maybe you could explain what the issue is that Robert seems to be having? I don't get it. He seems to be saying that he wants up to be on and down to be off, or vice-versa, for at least some of the switches. From my experience with 3 way and 4 way, that isn't possible. The switch position for on depends on the position of the other switch or switches. Does something change when you get to 5 way, or is he tilting at windmills? Even more mysterious, in his recent post he says he rewired it and solved the issue? My guess is that to achieve what he wants is impossilbe with conventional toggle switches. Or else I'm not understanding the issue.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tuesday, June 18, 2013 9:45:48 AM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

I believe he wants the lights to be off when all the switches are in the do wn position. Normally can be downe by just removing the switch and turning it 180deg and putting it back in the box. But it sounds like his wires ar e a bit short for that.
Frankly there is not much point to it anyway as the whole reason you have m ultiple switches is so you can turn the lights on or off from any of the lo cations. You enter the hall at one end in the dark so you turn the light o n. When you exit the other end you turn the light off. Now you have two s witches in the up position but the lights are off.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

ning it 180deg and putting it back in the box.  But it sounds like his wi res are a bit short for that.

locations.  You enter the hall at one end in the dark so you turn the lig ht on.  When you exit the other end you turn the light off.  Now you ha ve two switches in the up position but the lights are off.- Hide quoted tex t -

I agree completely with the last part of what you said. So, I still don't understand the talk about re-wiring, turning switches upside down, etc. I think we agree it would only "fix" the problem until another switch position was changed.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Robert:
I'm thinking that your best bet might be to simply replace your 4 way switches with ones that have either lighted toggles or toggles of a different colour than the rest of the switches in each "bank" of switches. That will at least set them apart visually, so you're brain recognizes that those switches are different, and the toggle being in the up position doesn't mean that anything is "ON".
I'm not familiar with 4 way switches, but with 3 way switches there really is no "OFF" position like you have with ordinary switches. With 3 way switches, you have two different "ON" positions where the switch sends power down one conductor or another depending on the toggle position, but no "OFF" position. But, in that case, toggle down doesn't mean the light is off since whether or not electricity flows depends on the position of BOTH three way switches, not just the position of one three way switch.
--
nestork

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

This is how they are wired. Beware, different terminology to USA.
http://www.lightwiring.co.uk/tag/intermediate-light-switch-wiring/
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 6/18/2013 11:40 AM, harry wrote:

The second 4-way circuit is kind of like a California 3-way with a 4-way switch added. A California 3-way is very useful in very limited applications. Harry's circuit does not have the useful features of a California 3-way.
A simple 3-way is easy to troubleshoot. IMHO this is a monstrosity that is difficult to troubleshoot and has no advantages over a simple 3-way.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
A USA friendly version of 4 way switching:
http://www.howtowirealightswitch.com/4-way-switch-with-power-feed-via-the-light-switch/
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 6/18/2013 10:33 AM, nestork wrote:

4way switches are installed anywhere on the traveler pair between the two 3way switches. You need two 3way switches to make a circuit with the power coming in at one 3way switch and the fixture connected at the other 3way switch. The position of the toggle on one 3way switch feeds power to or selects which wire in the traveler pair the fixture is connected to. 4way switches can be installed anywhere on the traveler pair between the two 3way switches since the 4way switch is like an X across the pair and swaps the feed from one wire in the pair to the other wire in the pair. I found an easy to understand illustrated web page that will help you. ^_^
http://users.wfu.edu/matthews/courses/p230/switches.html
TDD
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 07:10:53 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

I suspect he wants both switches "same" to mean "off", so they can both be down when off -- presumably if he's in a situation where he's about to turn the light off and end up with them both up, he'd run over and flip the other one instead. Sort of defeats the purpose of the 3/4-way switches, but to each his own; my wife made me flip one of our 3-ways because it bugged her that "different" was off, so you could never have both down with the light off. She can deal with the fact that "on" requires one up and one down (which will be true for OP also), but this light isn't on very often.
Josh
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
When we lived in Europe courtesy of Uncle Sam all our switches were push bu ttons that toggled a change of state relay. There seemed to be no limit to the number of switches. It was very convenient to be able to turn the bed room light on from the door, and off from the bed, and on from the desk, et c.
When you pressed the switch you heard a big clunk from the panel in the hal lway.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tuesday, June 18, 2013 10:10:53 AM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

It's not so complicated as you all are making it.
He simply wants the lights to be OFF when all four switches are in the down position.
In other words, if you run down the hall and flip all four switches to the down position, the lights will always end up OFF.
With an even number of switches, you will always have an even number of switches in a certain position with the lights off. Either four down, two down, or four up.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tuesday, June 18, 2013 3:35:16 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

I never saw him saying anything even close to that. And I can't imagine that it would make much sense. He said he had 4 switches controlling a hallway light. Why on earth would you need to run down the hall and check each switch? All you need do is look if the light is on or off and then hit the one switch located where you are exiting the hall.

switches in a certain position with the lights off. Either four down, two down, or four up. Which of course means you can't do what he wants to do.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 10:08:56 AM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Obviously you weren't reading carefully because that's EXACTLY what he said.
Nobody's checking each switch. He just wants the "home position" to be all four switches DOWN, and light OFF. It's a form of OCD.

switches in a certain position with the lights off. Either four down, two down, or four up.

Yes, he can. All he wants is, "All four switches DOWN, lights OFF."
What you keep harping on and on about is "All four switches MUST be down for the lights to be OFF." That is not what he wants.
Clearly he was able to achieve it because he replied and stated such. All it required was swapping the wires on the first switch.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 2:36:07 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Then you should be able to provide the excerpt where he says EXACTLY that. Funny thing. You haven't.
And assuming it's true, what good does it do again? If you only look at one or two switches, you still don't know that the light is on or off. Doug tried to make that point to you as well. So, you have to walk around to check at least 3 switches. He's so concerned, he'd probably check all 4. Does that make any sense as opposed to just looking at the hallway light to see if it's on or off? I've yet to see a 3 way, 4 way, hallway light where whether the light was on or off was not easily determinable from each switch. That's kind of the whole purpose, so that you can turn the light for that area on or off from the various areas it serves.

Thanks for the diagnosis. You've confirmed that what he's trying to do makes no sense.

switches in a certain position with the lights off. Either four down, two down, or four up.

Seems I'm not the only one that interpreted it that way.

I hope he's happy now. When leaving the hallway, he can either go check 3 switches to make sure they are down and the light is off. Me, I'd just look at the light as I'm exiting the hallway. Good grief!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.