window getting wet from inside

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Some additional remarks to the topic:
1st the condensating at the windows proves too high air humidity which condensates at colder parts.
2nd to stop condensating by new airtight windows will cause condensation at the next cooler parts - the interior sites of the exterior walls. And then mold will follow. So it would be quite good to have a forced condensation only at the panes.
3rd rip out the upper rubbers of your windows. The little more fresh air you will get in maybe is enough to reduce the air humidity without causing structural damage and mold attack.
4th to insulate the exterior walls by usual thermal lightweight insulation (fiberglass, polyfoam etc.) will not hinder condensation there and can not help against energy losses in spite of the industrial point of view.
We have tested this out by experiment ('Lichtenfelser Experiment', well known in Germany) and practical comparing of appartment houses with and without additional thermalinsulation. Reason: Thermal insulation can not stop IR radiation which causes about 99% of warmth transport. Look to the figure, it shows the temperature at the opposite of materials after 10 min IR radiation with a redlight bulb. Materials from above: fiberglass, styrofoam, foamglass, wood fiber board, solid brick stone, gypsum card board, solid pinewood:
http://www.konrad-fischer-info.de/Test2.gif
Here you can see no effects of additional thermal insulation of 25-appartments-house 6 (blue line) in 1988 to the heating costs - 1 Million Marks has been spent for nothing!
[img:358ddfe6f7]
http://www.konrad-fischer-info.de/7tolbri.gif [/img:358ddfe6f7]
The link gives some info to get rid with too much moisture in the house:
Mold attack - A Guide
Good luck!
Konrad
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KonradFischer wrote:

Define too high air humidity (how can it be humidity without air? :-)

That would only occur if there was no vapor barrier. That's why vapor barriers are there.

An interesting dehumidifier. Would it not only cause mold there????

And you did some measurements on this??

Of course it will not stop condensation, that's why we use a vapor barrier.

That seems to conflict with my physics classes, of course maybe IR has changed in the last 35 years.

I am not sure where you are coming from, but it seems your theories, if I understand them, are not exactly main stream and seem to conflict with most available information on the subject, as well as my personal observations .
--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit
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BAD idea.

Consider Kirchoff. It certainly can, unless it is transparent.
Nick
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Surprised? But true.
Konrad
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air? :-) > > 2nd That would only occur if there was no vapor barrier. That's why vapor > barriers are there. > > 3rd An interesting dehumidifier. Would it not only cause mold there???? > > 4th And you did some measurements on this?? > > 5th Of course it will not stop condensation, that's why we use a vapor > barrier. >
> 6th That seems to conflict with my physics classes, of course maybe IR has changed in the last 35 years. > > 7th I am not sure where you are coming from, but it seems your theories, if I understand them, are not exactly main stream and seem to conflict with most available information on the subject, as well as my personal > observations . > > -- > Joseph Meehan >
Thank you Joseph for your sceptic, humorous and open minded point of view, which I lika a lot. I'll try to answer, please forgive me my poor english, I am not a native speaker and from Germany:
1st Too high humidity is shown by condensate - if its condensates, its too high (for the room and construction behaviour, for the inhabitants security against mold attack) - if not, it may be ok. I will give no rates/numbers/ranges, because condensate is the important thing. And in the material pores humidity can condensate <65% RH because of hydrogen bonds between pore surface and humidity.
2nd Also the vapor barrier is colder than the room air. So it must condensate inside the barrier if RH is high enough - and in rooms with airtight windows, certainly this case occurs often enough.
In addition the barriers can not work for long time in lightweight constructions. Thus constructions move around whole the year, what damages the fixing/bonding of the barrier and the barrier by itself is ageing and will be not the same after some time. You know the cracks in synthetic materials by ageing - this happens in every barrier material I know.
I saw such cases often, as I am architect for old buildings since over 20 years, planned the restoration in over 400 projects and have consulting practise all over Germany.
3rd Maybe. But normal people will dry the condensate daily, and clever people will have better airing and heating to get rid with condensate by most simple means. The advantage is that condensate at the single pane is better than and will hinder riskful condensate in wall, floor and ceiling. Thats it, isn't it?
4th I don't need measurements, I have experienced it in a lot of consulted problems from my collegues and mine in Germany. Otherwise I would not say any word about it, believe it or not.
5th see 2nd
6th Good joke ;-) But what have you learnt about IR radiation, transmisson and conductivity? 'There are three ways of heat losses, ... etc.' I did learn the same. But what about the rates? Nothing. And you? If you will know something more of my point of view about this in the thread in popular writing, please post. I don't want to give annoying huge posts.
7th Its not main stream, but its real live! My (and my scientific friends) position is well known in Germany and discussed there since 20 years, also in the most important TV broadcasters. Search only my first name in Google, you will find me on the first page, look 'Altbau' (Old building)- thats my page under the first 3 worldwide.
I would recommend a visit to the link before next round.
http://www.konrad-fischer-info.de/7SCHIM2.JPG
[img:757e427e90]
http://www.konrad-fischer-info.de/7SCHI01.JPG [/img:757e427e90] Condensate and mold in spite of vapor barrier
Thermal insulation with no effects than mold attack?
Thanks and best wishes!
Konrad
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Dear Nick,
thanks for your very critical post. I will add some remarks and as I suppose that you have not read my upper post I will repeat some things (sorry for the audience):
To rip out the rubbers is a very good idea and best practise here in Germany. We have about 50% of all houses attacked by mold. Nearly All of them have one detail common: airtight windows. A lot of old houses had never mold, after changing the old windows against airtight ones, mold attack follows. The ripped off rubber is THE Remedy. And costs nothing, done by DIY.
I know the results of Gustav Robert Kirchhoff. You should discuss the result of this experiment, if you will try to refute me in correct way:
http://www.konrad-fischer-info.de/Test2.gif
It shows the temperature rising of several insulation boards and solid materials, all 4 cm thick, after 10minutes infra-red radiation by a redlight buld. Temperature is measured at the opposite of the boards. From above: fibreglass, styrofoam, foamglass, solid brick, wood fibre board, gypsum card board, solid pinewood.
Only the solid materials can really hinder IR radiation. The results of the leightweighter are awful, don't you think so?
Further details here: Thermal insulation, airtight windows, damp and mold attack
Best regards
Konrad
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