Why use a level when building something?

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I dont understand the point in using a level when someone is building something. That level may show that the floor, wall, or roof is completely level right now, but in an hour or day from now, it will no longer be level. The earth is rotating, gravity changes as the world turns, and what was level yesterday is not level today because of the earths rotation. After all, that bubble in the level is measuring whatever you're building, in relationship to the earths surface you are positioned on at that moment, and nothing more. This means nothing, because that piece of soil where you're working, will not be the same position in space in another hour.
When I build something, I do it all by sight. If I put a fence post in the ground, I can actually see it's off by as little as 1/4". If I measure that post from something like a house, I am nearly always accurate within 1/4". If I use a level, it almost always ends up being off by an inch or more, and I have several levels, and they are all accurate. That's if you want to call any level accutate, because none of them are accurate, simply because they are based on the present rotation of the earth.
It amazes me that in this age of high technology, we still use levels based on the surface of the earth, rather than having levels based on the entire solar system, the earth's position based on it's angle to the sun an other planets, and the plane of space that our solar system rides upon. Such a level would be operated by satellites in space sending signals similar to a GPS. It's measurements would be based on ALL the planets, not just the earth.
Yet, to date, we have nothing even close to this, and continue to build homes and skyscrapers based on outdated mathematic formulas which dictate the earth as a static object, which it is not. If we build a 1000foot tall building, it could at times be as much as 18 feet off of level at the top, in relationship the the our solar system and the universe. Of course this puts stress and strain on the foundation as well as the earth surrounding this structure, and results in eventual destruction of the building from within.
In a simple one or two story home, this is not noticable except for slight dips and sags in the floor. And most homes are built of wood, which tends to "float" and form according the position in relation to space. But these tall structures built of rigid materials such as steel and concrete, (including bridges), do not flex and are prone to disaster mostly because they are not of "TRUE level", that is level with the entire solar system.
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Sounds like a University thesis is being worked on; trying to prove something that can never be proven, but written to sound somewhat logical in order to get grant money.
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Perhaps because precipitation and drainage are the main local problems, and rain falls under local rather than cosmic gravity.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
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On Jun 13, 1:42 am, snipped-for-privacy@dotcom.com wrote:

Your basic premise is wrong to begin with. Levels do not work 'based on the ground, earth's positon, etc." It works on gravity which is permanently fixed to the center of mass of whatever planet, star, moon, etc. you are on.
Try again but get an education first.
Harry K
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On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 07:08:56 -0700 (PDT), Harry K

http://www.harborfreight.com/24-inch-box-frame-level-92993.html
Guaranteed to point straight to China.
--Vic
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wrote:

Do not - I repeat *do not* - buy this level.
I bought one last year and found out after the fact that Harbor Freight does not carry replacement bubbles.
Once you use up the bubbles that come with the level, all you are left with is a 24" straight edge.
.
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wrote:

Do not - I repeat *do not* - buy this level.
I bought one last year and found out after the fact that Harbor Freight does not carry replacement bubbles.
Once you use up the bubbles that come with the level, all you are left with is a 24" straight edge. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- How does one "use up" the bubbles?
FWIW, I've purchased wonderful little stick-on bubbles that I've placed on my cordless drills so that I can drill holes with some assurance that they are level. Maybe you could retrofit them onto your level.
-- Bobby G.
.
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On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 18:55:56 -0400, "Robert Green"

Just in case....I was joking. You know, digging to China....uh, never mind. I have a few levels, all Stanleys I think, including a 3 footer, but have used them mostly as straight edges when marking lines. Here's what I nearly always use when I level or want a slope. Much easier to see than bubbles, and gives you degree of slope. And probably more accurate. Can't get much more simple than a needle pointer on a pendulum.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_SPM2707283301P?prdNo&blockNo&blockType=G18
Mine's a Craftsman and as I remember cost somewhere around 10 bucks. Don't see it on the Sears site now. Looks pretty much the same as this one, but this one is priced too high. I'm on my second one. The first one I bought 30-40 years ago and lost it on along the way.
--Vic
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--
> >How does one "use up" the bubbles?
>
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wrote:
<stuff snipped>

http://www.zorotools.com/g/00062491/k-G3045971
Much better pricing and free shipping with $50+. You guys really know how to use up my allowance.
-- Bobby G.
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--
> >How does one "use up" the bubbles?
>
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On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 19:31:56 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03

Think mine is about 6" but I left that weakness out. I've actually put it atop my aluminum 3 foot level when my eyeball says something's not true. Think I did that when pitching gutters. It was clumsy. Maybe I should get one just to glue to the 3 footer. Nah. It's just easy to see the needle, and easy to move it on the work. With lumber you have to watch for that warped stuff. I don't trust my eyes when it's expensive and I can't afford a surprise. I put 2 edges on the floor when selecting. If nothing wants to match the floor, the floor is probably bad. But once 2 pieces match the floor you can count on it. Something like the odds with DNA. Doesn't work on gravel.
--Vic
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news:fcde6cbd-9402-4b83-aca4-
<<When I built my first deck, I leveled a 14' beam with a 4 foot level placed in the center. I bolted it to the posts, ran the cantilevered joists out and then tried to attached the rim joist. "What the H? How come it doesn't fit right?"
Turns out the beam was straight and level for about 10 of those 14' and then dipped down. The 4' level read as perfectly level at the center...I guess I should have checked both ends too.>>
Been there, done that! (-: Even the St. Louis Arch halves had to be jacked to make contact.
<<A 10 short tons (9.1 t), 8 feet (2.4 m)-long triangular section was slated to be inserted at 10:00 a.m. local time but was done 30 minutes early because thermal expansion had constricted the 8.5-foot gap at the top by 5 inches (13 cm). To mitigate this, workers used fire hoses to spray water on the surface of the south leg to cool it down and make it contract. The keystone was inserted in 13 minutes, only 6 inches (15 cm) remained. For the next section, a hydraulic jack had to pry apart the legs six feet. The last section was left only 2.5 feet (0.76 m). >>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gateway_Arch
(Turns out that project began in 1933 - now I don't feel bad about how long it took to rewire my kitchen.)
Short levels are for short boards but anything longer that a 4' level is a pain to use and store. ("Be careful you'll poke your eye out with that thing!") Fortunately I was taught early in life to "sight down" each board at the lumber yard like a rifle. Makes the loopy ones easy to spot. They absolutely hate me at Home Depot because I drag out all the good boards from the back. I figure if they're sly enough to put all the bad stock in the front, I'm sly enough to pull all the good stock from the back. It's not foolproof. Some boards are only temporarily straight and as soon as you get them home, they warp out like the Starship Enterprise.
I have a 9" an audio level that snaps into a 3' frame and beeps when it's precisely (and I mean PRECISELY) level. Good for some situations, not so good for others. Maddening sometimes. No one I know can hold it straight enough to make it beep for more than a second. After a few beers people can hardly get it to beep at all.
-- Bobby G.
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re: "I figure if they're sly enough to put all the bad stock in the front, I'm sly enough to pull all the good stock from the back."
You are giving the staff at HD way too much credit.
Many of us do what you do...check each board before purchasing.
I'll pull a board off of the rack, see that it sucks and put it off to the side. I'll pull another, and if it's good, I'll put it on the cart. This gets repeated until I have all the boards I need.
When I'm done, I've got a stack of crap boards off to the side. Since I'm a nice guy, I put them back on the rack. Some folks may not, so the HD staff does.
In either case, all of the crap boards end up in the front, but not because of any creative thinking (read: slyness) on the part of the HD staff. It's a result of nothing more than the sorting process and the return of the crap boards to the easiest location.
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wrote in message

re: "I figure if they're sly enough to put all the bad stock in the front, I'm sly enough to pull all the good stock from the back."
You are giving the staff at HD way too much credit.
Many of us do what you do...check each board before purchasing.
I'll pull a board off of the rack, see that it sucks and put it off to the side. I'll pull another, and if it's good, I'll put it on the cart. This gets repeated until I have all the boards I need.
When I'm done, I've got a stack of crap boards off to the side. Since I'm a nice guy, I put them back on the rack. Some folks may not, so the HD staff does.
In either case, all of the crap boards end up in the front, but not because of any creative thinking (read: slyness) on the part of the HD staff. It's a result of nothing more than the sorting process and the return of the crap boards to the easiest location. ---------------------------------------------------------------- That *might* get them off the hook if they didn't also place all the opened and resealed packages of tools, screws, etc. to the front, etc. They pulled that crap on me with a new toilet, claiming that the open box one was the only one they had. They stuck with that BS until I called the district manager on my cellphone (programmed in from an earlier, similar run-in) and insisted that the manager walk me back into the stock area. He didn't have to because within minutes they were wheeling out a new, sealed unit just like the one in the badly ripped, open box.
I've seen so many retailers do this I can only assume it's SOP. While you theory can certainly explain some of the crap being pushed to the front, it can't explain why there's only one GD toilet in an open box in the plumbing area but apparently plenty more in the back.
-- Bobby G.
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I'll grant you that a single open-package being out front while there are sealed ones in the back of the store sounds fishy.
However, I still don't think the staff is purposely moving bad boards to the front as part of their job responsibilities. I sincerely believe that they just end up there after the customers sort all the good ones out.
I also don't think they place open/resealed packages in front in any kind of "sly" manner.
Let's say I return an open package of an item to the Returns desk. The package needs a piece of tape to keep it closed so if I haven't already done it, the person staffing the Returns desk does.
Now, every once in a while they call someone from each department to put the returned items back where they belong.
If you were the guy from hardware who had to restock a box of screws and there were already 6 boxes on the shelf, would you remove the six sealed boxes, place the taped up one in the back and then re-shelf the sealed ones? I doubt you would, but not because of any "slyness" on your part. It's simply easier to just push the other boxes back and put the returned one in the front, the same as you would do with an unopened package.
Once again, no one placed the open package in the front in an attempt to be sly...it was nothing more than a convenient place to put it.
Even if it wasn't a retuned item...let's say it was a ripped open box already on the shelf...once it's removed and taped up, it's simply easier to just put it in the front and be done. If a customer opened the box, odds are he's just going to put it right back where he got it from - the front.
I really think that in most cases, you are gving the store too much credit. I think that open items end up in front through other means than "slyness".
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On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:25:03 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03

With lumber I wouldn't doubt a good operation gets rid of at least the worst stuff as the customer sorts it to the front. Not the barked up studs going for 69 cents, but at least the 2 buck studs. If there's a competing operation down the road a normal buyer doesn't want to wade through too much crap. I go down the road to a different source if I have to sort too much. I just don't knowingly buy open box. Usually crazy unless deeply discounted. Then it's half-crazy. But a couple months ago I bought a NEW Felpro manifold gasket kit from Amazon. Might have saved a couple bucks on the kit, but I did it for the convenience. The damn thing had been opened. Sure enough, one of the upper plenum gaskets was missing, and the lower metal-framed gaskets were bent as if they had mishandled. Had to go to the FLAPS for the plenum gasket. So if there was any savings buying from Amazon, that was wiped out. Excuse me. I'm going to the Amazon site to leave a scathing review. Keep forgetting to do that.
--Vic
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re: "anything longer that a 4' level is a pain to use and store"
I have a 6' aluminum level that I love.
It fits easily along the side of my trailer and I store it in the "rafters" of my shed.
I needed a 6' level for the Derby cars to reach from axle to axle to ensure the car was level before tuning the spindles. Once I bought it, I started using it for all sorts of other projects.
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wrote in message

re: "anything longer that a 4' level is a pain to use and store"
I have a 6' aluminum level that I love.
It fits easily along the side of my trailer and I store it in the "rafters" of my shed.
I needed a 6' level for the Derby cars to reach from axle to axle to ensure the car was level before tuning the spindles. Once I bought it, I started using it for all sorts of other projects. ============================================I didn't say it wasn't useful, but that it's clumsy to handle and for the normal workshop, hard to store. Tell me you haven't banged into a doorway or knocked something over with it when using it in the house. With a straight (and level) face!
-- Bobby G.
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wrote in message

Another believe in the goodness of man. That's guantlet number two!
People are evil, I assure you. (-:
A walk through the ocean of most souls would scarcely get your feet wet!
-- Bobby G.
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