Yes, I am -- I'm serious about making sure people don't get hurt by following your advice.
Look, Wade, it's real simple: if you want me to stop pointing out to people that you're giving out incorrect and dangerous advice... stop doing it.
And spend a little time learning the difference between neutral and ground, huh?
Or may well be a combination:
The machine probably uses 120 for motor. So needs the neutral. Just be certain it is designed for 60 Hz.
Combo, I can understand. Washer alone 220? That's ridiculous. No call for that.
It does NOT explicitly prohibit anything of the sort. It used to allow for neutral and ground to be bonded together inside the appliance just like he says, and still permits it for appliances installed in existing buildings with existing three wire receptacles.
ASSuming that the mfgr. of the appliance allows it, it would be perfectly acceptable to install a three wire cord set following the mfgrs. bonding instructions.
I agree that using the four wire cord set would be preferable, but a three wire cord set is NOT a Code violation AFAIK.
nate
You are correct in what you're saying for an electric clothes dryer, but the OP called it a washing machine and hasn't returned to amend that statement
240 volt usually made for export or marine use. That is why I question if it might be a 50Hz machine.
*Three*times* the OP called it a washing machine. In two different posts.
Unlike Wade and Nate, I am assuming that the OP knows the difference.
It could be one made for sale in Europe, with a USA cord attached.
On Jan 30, 7:33 pm, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
Wow. This is a heated discussion. Normally I would stay out of it, but some of the advice given was very unsafe so I feel compelled to post. Under no circumstances should the equipment ground be bonded to the neutral at the equipment. The ground and the ungrounded current carrying conductor (Neutral) are ONLY bonded at one place and that is at the main service entrance for residential service. The purpose of the bonding at the main service entrance is to limit the line to ground voltage to the intended voltage, in US residential thats Line to Neutral of 115VAC nominal. It is also to ensure that the potential difference between ground and neutral is 0 volts. Bonding the equipment ground and the neutral at the equipment will cause the current flow return to the panel to split between the ground and the neutral as it flows back to the service panel. The ground conductor is not intended to have current flow unless there is a ground fault and that current is only intended to open the overcurrent protection device. Bonding the neutral and the ground together at the equipment will in make the chassis and frame of the equipment part of the current return path. While this may not be noticible under normal conditions it could be catastrophic in the event of a problem. In the event the neutral and ground return path are interrupted, and it does happen, the neutral side at the equipment will float up to the line voltage supplied. This would cause the potential of the equipment case and chassis to be at 115VAC potential to ground. If an unsuspecting person were to touch the case and a grounded surface, say a water line, severe injury and/or a fatality would occur. Bottom line, please do not follow the advice of the poster that advised connecting the neutral and the ground together. If you are not 100% sure of what you are doing contact a licensed electrician. The work involved should take less then 1 hour. Saving $50.00 is not worth killing a loved one.
The chassis of my BRAND NEW (june '06) dryer is connected (via a nice green wire) to the neutral lug the THREE WIRE cord hooks to. I only know this, because in the house we're renovating I installed a 4 wire plug ('cause everyone seems to think this is the new fad) and I changed the cord. YES I changed the cord myself. So, unless I'm misunderstanding what you are saying........
Please post manufacturer and Model Number. I'd like to see the manual. Definately does not sound right to me.
The neutral is not the "ungrounded " current carrying conductor.
This debate has gotten off track only because some are seeing the appliance as a washer and some as a dryer. If it were in fact an electric dryer, NEC allows you to connect the neutral and ground together at the machine and connect it to an "existing" properly installed three wire outlet
This is the one previously mentioned. Mine is not this exact model, but close. I'm not where it is right now, so I can't quote exact model numbers.
here's the link to the manual
and here is the text in particular explaining what I was trying to:
This dryer is manufactured ready to install with a 3-wire
electrical supply connection. The neutral ground wire is
permanently connected to the neutral conductor (white wire)
within the dryer. If the dryer is installed with a 4-wire electrical
supply connection, the neutral ground wire must be removed
from the external ground conductor screw (green screw), and
secured under the neutral terminal (center or white wire) of
the terminal block. When the neutral ground wire is secured
under the neutral terminal (center or white wire) of the
terminal block, the dryer cabinet is isolated from the neutral
conductor.
On Jan 31, 7:32 pm, "RBM" wrote:
You are correct. The neutral is not the ungrounded current carrying conductor, it is the grounded current carrying conductor. It was a typo and I thank you for clarifying it. The current code section
250.140 requires that clothes dryers be grounded in the manner specified by section 250.134 or section 250.138, a 4 wire circuit. There is an exception however that on an existing 3 wire circuit they can be grounded by bonding the ground and the neutral within the dryer. I was unaware of this since my background is primarily industrial and I have never run across this in my limited exposure to residential installations. The code was changed with the 1996 edition and new installations of this type of service are prohibited. It boggles my mind that it was ever allowed due to the safety implications I previously posted. If a new 4 wire dryer is to be installed on an existing 3 wire service then the 4 wire plug must be removed and replaced with a 3 wire plug and the neutral and ground should be bonded in the dryer (per NEC). Conversely if a 3 wire dryer is installed on a new 4 wire service then the 3 wire plug must be removed, a 4 wire plug installed, and the bonding jumper removed. Personally if I were going to install a dryer in my home and found a 3 wire service I would replace it with a 4 wire service first. I know there are people that would argue it's not necessary but that is how I feel. I am not aware of anywhere else in the code that it is permissable to bond the neutral and the ground downstream of the service entrance. It has now been made non-permissable and the NFPA has good reasons for changing the NEC. Next time I will make sure I do a little more due diligence prior to posting.
manual
Please see my previous post for general information. This in particular is acceptable per code for pre-1996 service installation provided:
Per NEC 250.140
1) The supply circuit is 120/240=Volt single phase 3 wire (Typical for a home) 2) The grounded conductor (Neutral) is not smaller than 10AWG copper or 8AWG Aluminum. 3) The grounded conductor (Neutral) is insulated, or the grounded (Neutral) is uninsulated and part of a Type SE service entrance cable and the branch circuit originates at the service panel. (This means if you have SE cable it cannot be fed off a subpanel) 4) Grounding contacts of receptacles furnished as part of the equipment are bonded to the equipment.I apologize if I alarmed you.
The exception applies to electric clothes dryers and electric cooking equipment such as a range. The exception has a history and I'm sure all here agree with your assessment of its dangers, as does the NEC, however in the real world, its awfully hard to convince a customer that something they've been using for years, with no apparent problems, is suddenly hazardous and needs to be replaced at a cost of $$$$
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