About 6 month old gas water heater - just recently, the water seems to run continuously - has a sound like water is always on, but the burners are only activated after showers, dishwater, etc.
When one turns off the cold water input valve the water sound stops.
Could there be a problem with the check valve being stuck open and the water draining out continuously?
Ideas? Resolutions?
Assuming what you are calling the "input valve" is the water heater supply shutoff, and not the main shutoff for the whole system, then:
Best case - Someone left a hot water faucet open in a seldom used sink.
Medium case - What you are calling a "check valve" is really the T&P relief valve which has opened and gotten stuck in that condition and is draining water to an unoticed location. (Highly unlikely for a 6 month old valve, but maybe somebody cheated and reused the old valve....)
Worst case - You've got a busted hot water pipe located under a concrete slab floor.
Start listening and looking...
HTH,
Jeff
Joseph, he did say that the running water sound was "continuous". If that's a true statement, I doubt that thermal expansion could cause it, 'eh?
Jeff
Yes - that is what I meant - the WH supply valve - cold water in. When I turn this off, the running water sound stops immediately.
Only 4 sinks in the house - all are shut off and dry all round - so no leaks at thta point.
T&P valve - yes, that is what I meant - it does seem to be functionaing properly - though I can't verify that completely - when I open it, I do get hot water running throught he pipes to the outside of the garage.
While the house is on slab, all of the pipes are run down the center of the house within the walls - no sign of water or a leak.
Anyway - the guy that installed this beast is coming by Monday to do his thing........
It could be that the city water presseure is unusually high and it's overpowering the pressure relief setting of the T&P valve, or for some reason that valve is defective and is popping open lower than it's design pressure.
A competent installer should have a pressure gage with him he can attach to a hose bib (like the heater drain valve or an outside sill c*ck) and easily measure the system pressure.
If high pressure is what's causing the problem, the installation of a pressure reducing/regulating valve at the input to the entire plumbing system will fix things. Needing one is not that unusual a situation.
Let us know what it turns out to be,
Jeff
Check valve? What check valve? Water has to be going someplace. Unless you have a valve open somewhere, or a leak, water can't be running. Look around.
I caught that also. However it could run for some time and it might seem like continuous. But to answer you question, it would not be continuous, and not likely for more than a couple of minutes.
On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 16:37:24 -0600, "Steve" wrote: snip:
Being as you have a slab foundation, I'd suspect a leak there. As it is the heated water, check the temperatures on the floors in the house. I had a leak like this; although, I didn't notice the running water sound you do. You could still have a very small leak under/ within the slab. Check around the foundation outside too. That is where I first verified a leak but I did notice one of the bedroom floors was warmer that elsewhere in the house. I think you have a leak under the foundation slab and the water maybe dispersing under the foundation.
Also, I never noticed excessive running of the water heater burners either.
Thunder
I'd just like to point out that while *you* may do everything to code, there are plenty of hacks in the world who do not - which means Joseph's claim to have seen some that were improperly done is perfectly believable.
However, unless your work is almost entirely in new installations and you do hardly any repairs to existing systems, your claim to have *never* seen one that was improperly done is perfectly absurd.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
Hi toller, hope you are having a nice day
On 06-Mar-05 At About 19:33:56, toller wrote to All Subject: Re: Water heater is ALWAYS filling....what could be the problem?
t> From: "toller"
t> It probably isn't inexperience; I am sure he knows the PT valve t> wouldn't run continually. (and of course the OP would have mentioned t> the PT valve discharging) It is a matter of not reading the OP t> carefully before replying. (I have done it myself, though I felt t> pretty silly afterwards.)
sorry but he is constantly making these mistakes. he is always trying to answer questions when he obviously doesn't really know the proper answer. I do have to give him credit as he does seem to have a good memory and can recall what he reads but I believe that if you aren't in the trade you are trying to answer the question for you really shouldn't try to answer it as there are plenty of people in this group who are in the respective trade and can CORRECTLY answer the question.
-=> HvacTech2
Hi Joseph, hope you are having a nice day
On 06-Mar-05 At About 21:46:03, Joseph Meehan wrote to All Subject: Re: Water heater is ALWAYS filling....what could be the problem?
JM> From: "Joseph Meehan"
JM> HvacTech2 wrote: >> Hi Joseph, hope you are having a nice day
JM> Yea, but I bet you as I have seen some that were not.
Nope. I do everything to code and have never seen one that was improperly done. they always terminate within 1" of the floor near a floor drain. please stop trying to answer these questions as it is obvious you don't know the proper answers. also as someone else has mentioned if it was the PT it wouldn't be constant either. you really need to stop this before you get someone hurt.
-=> HvacTech2
No not a check valve, but the PT valve. The pressure temperature valve will open and all water out when the temperature of pressure gets too high. Some fail with age, but in your case I would guess that in not the case, but it is functioning as it is designed. If you have a check valve and you do not have a working expansion tank, then as the water heats up it expands, with a check valve and no hot water valves open it has to go somewhere and that is where the PT valve comes into play.
If I am right, you need an expansion tank, or service the one that is there.
Sorry you feel that way. But I have seen more than one PT that someone piped in such a way that you could not see the end. It happens even if you have never seen it. I know well that it is not code and not safe, but, as I am sure you know, not everyone knows or bothers to follow code.
I feel sorry that you seem to have a personal problem with me. I don't know why. Sorry you are having a bad day.
OK everyone - the problem is n fact is a leak in the slab - fortunately, it is in the garage slab, in the wall behind the existing water heater - really near garage slab floor level, but far enough down that the hot water was running under the slab.
Cost to repair by folks who have the tools/knowledge/time (I don't have any) to fix is going to be ~$900 (this includes removing and reinstalling the water heater, busting up the slab, fixing the leak, repouring the concrete, repairing the wall section we had to take apart). I'm in Alabama if folks think it's cheap or outrageous.
Just glad it wasn't down in the middle of the kitchen floor or someplace like it.
Thanks for all of the replies and suggestions - helped us narrow our focus down alot.
Steve
Hi Joseph, hope you are having a nice day
On 07-Mar-05 At About 07:07:37, Joseph Meehan wrote to All Subject: Re: Water heater is ALWAYS filling....what could be the problem?
JM> From: "Joseph Meehan"
JM> Sorry you feel that way. But I have seen more than one PT that JM> someone piped in such a way that you could not see the end. It JM> happens even if you have never seen it. I know well that it is not JM> code and not safe, but, as I am sure you know, not everyone knows JM> or bothers to follow code.
As I said I haven't seen one yet but I am sure there are.
JM> I feel sorry that you seem to have a personal problem with me. I JM> don't know why. Sorry you are having a bad day.
Stop answering questions you know nothing about and the "problems" will stop. the problem isn't mine it is yours. you seem to have a problem with letting someone knowledgeable answer questions. you do get some right but why not let someone who really knows the answer give it?
-=> HvacTech2
Hi Doug, hope you are having a nice day
On 07-Mar-05 At About 07:53:06, Doug Miller wrote to All Subject: Re: Water heater is ALWAYS filling....what could be the problem?
DM> From: snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
DM> In article , "HvacTech2" DM> wrote
DM> > Nope, I do service only with a little install work. I am DM> exclusively in the >commercial side now. I don't think you can DM> honestly say what I have seen in >my 30+ years in the trade but as DM> for a T&P I have never seen one terminated >improperly.
DM> The fact that you're working in commercial installations probably has DM> a lot to do with that. A commercial business will normally insist DM> on having things done right, and will hire a licensed plumber DM> who knows how to do that. Dick and Jane Homeowner, on the other DM> hand, may have it done by a neighbor, Jane's cousin's ex-husband, DM> or some jackleg they hired from a handyman ad in the newspaper. DM> Or Dick may get his buddy from work to do the job for a case of beer DM> (consumed while working). Or do it himself. You get the picture.
DM> I'm *not* in the trade, just a homeowner with better than average DM> handyman skills, but I've seen quite a few that were terminated DM> improperly. In fact, based on the homes I've purchased, made offers DM> on, or looked at with a realtor, I'd say that more residential DM> T&P valves are terminated IMproperly than properly.
I am sure that there problably are non code P&T terminations But as I said I haven't seen one yet and as for commercial work I have always done commercial work along with 20 or so years of residential.
-=> HvacTech2
I would look at bypassing the line in the slab if it is at all possible. It would most likely be MUCH cheaper, and in my opinion better also. I do not like the idea of having any joints in copper piping inside a slab. Larry
To which I say:
"One expert look is worth a thousand expert opinions."
Sorry it turned out to be very close to my initial "Worst Case" answer, but we had fun kicking this around didn't we guys?
Jeff (Whirling around doing his "I toldjaso" dance...)
We had a similar hot water leak under the slab a few years ago. Fortunately it was in the run from the heater to the kitchen sink and all on the same side of the hallway. A very competent plumber removed the baseboard and ran a bypass along the base of the wall and I made a new baseboard from two strips of millwork. After patching some drywall and painting, you'd never know it happened.
That rerouting through the attic has a potential downside unless you're in a really freeze free area. Here, near Las Vegas, some neighbors went on a winter vacation. A rare freezing spell broke an attic pipe and they had a real mess when they came home. --- SJF
Yeah - the thought was that IF the leak were detected in the slab at another point - say mid living room or kitchen, then I was going to totally by-pass it by running it up & through the attic then back down to the dishwasher/sink in the kitchen.
That would leave a very short run of ~15-20 feet running under the garage portion of the slab.
As it is, I will just fix this part now & then when we finally get around to doing the complete kitchen remodel (wife wants it soon - I'm going to wait until I can pay cash for it) then we will discuss better options to include bypassing the hot water run altogether and putting in a point of service heater just to serve the kitchen.
--Steve
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