I second this as well. For some reason the brilliant builders of my house decided to run the water pipes through the garage slab. It goes about 1 foot over into the crawlspace and could have easily been avoided. Makes NO sense.
A big downside of slab embedded hot water pipes is the energy loss from the slab absorbing the heat.
Running pipe in slad is never the best idea, for HW the slab cools the pipe rapidly. Run new pipe at wall or ceiling, now you have a chance to insulate the pipe well.
[...]
Is there *no* way to bypass as folks are suggesting? That would save scads of time, work, and materials if you do not have to bust/repour the slab.
If you must go the slab route, you might want to see about some sort of continuous/non corrodible line so there are no joints in the slab. Is there a PEX product that is OK for potable water and slab burial? (I don't know if the pex they use for radiant floor heating is ok for drinking/cooking water.)
What about using a concrete saw to cut a shallow trough for the line? Might be less work/material.
If nothing else, insulate the line so you don't get the thermal transfer.
good luck
Steve wrote: ...
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I'll just reiterate others--I would let them put it back in the slab--you're just asking for more trouble down the road. There's got to be some way to route it that doesn't have to go under a slab.
since you mentioned in another response that you're doing some fairly significant remodeling in the not too distant future, even if there's a temporary visible line to be permanently fixed later, I would rebury this thing...
Folks - the leak has been fixed already - we only had to excavate ~4 inches of concrete - it turned out that the hole was casued by a bit of wire mesh penetrating the copper tube - it was in an easily accesible area - this leak was NOT in the middle of a floor and had it been, I would have go the re-route way. Total cost was reduced to
Hi Joseph, hope you are having a nice day
On 06-Mar-05 At About 17:30:45, Joseph Meehan wrote to All Subject: Re: Water heater is ALWAYS filling....what could be the problem?
JM> From: "Joseph Meehan"
JM> Steve wrote: >> About 6 month old gas water heater - just recently, the water seems >> to run continuously - has a sound like water is always on, but the >> burners are only activated after showers, dishwater, etc.
JM> No not a check valve, but the PT valve. The pressure temperature JM> valve will open and all water out when the temperature of pressure JM> gets too high. Some fail with age, but in your case I would guess JM> that in not the case, but it is functioning as it is designed. If JM> you have a check valve and you do not have a working expansion tank, JM> then as the water heats up it expands, with a check valve and no hot JM> water valves open it has to go somewhere and that is where the PT JM> valve comes into play.
JM> If I am right, you need an expansion tank, or service the one that is JM> there.
Mr. meehan, again you show your inexperience. if the PT valve was opening he would see it as they are supposed to be terminated so you can see when they blow off. now, with a little more information we may be able to solve this. are your pipes running through a slab or do you have a basement?
-=> HvacTech2
Hi Jeff, hope you are having a nice day
On 06-Mar-05 At About 07:58:49, Jeff Wisnia wrote to All Subject: Re: Water heater is ALWAYS filling....what could be the problem?
JW> From: Jeff Wisnia
JW> Steve wrote:
JW> >> Assuming what you are calling the "input valve" is the water JW> heater supply >>shutoff, and not the main shutoff for the whole JW> system, then: >> >> >>Best case - Someone left a hot water faucet JW> open in a seldom used sink. >> >>Medium case - What you are calling JW> a "check valve" is really the T&P >>relief valve which has opened JW> and gotten stuck in that condition and is >>draining water to an JW> unoticed location. (Highly unlikely for a 6 month old JW> >> valve, but maybe somebody cheated and reused the old valve....) JW> >> >> Worst case - You've got a busted hot water pipe located under JW> a concrete >>sla Start listening and looking... >>
JW> >>HTH, >> >>Jeff Jeffry Wisnia >> >>(W1BSV + Brass Rat JW> '57 EE) >> >> "As long as there are final exams, there will be JW> prayer in public >>schools" >> Yes - that is what I meant - the WH supply valve - cold water in. >> When I turn this off, the running water sound stops immediately. Only >> 4 sinks in the house - all are shut off and dry all round - so no >> leaks at thta point. T&P valve - yes, that is what I meant - it does >> seem to be functionaing properly - though I can't verify that >> completely - when I open it, I do get hot water running throught he >> pipes to the outside of the garage. While the house is on slab, all >> of the pipes are run down the center of the house within the walls >> - no sign of water or a leak. Anyway - the guy that installed >> this beast is coming by Monday to do his thing........
JW> It could be that the city water presseure is unusually high and it's JW> overpowering the pressure relief setting of the T&P valve, or for JW> some reason that valve is defective and is popping open lower than JW> it's design pressure.
JW> A competent installer should have a pressure gage with him he can JW> attach to a hose bib (like the heater drain valve or an outside sill JW> c*ck) and easily measure the system pressure.
JW> If high pressure is what's causing the problem, the installation of JW> a pressure reducing/regulating valve at the input to the entire JW> plumbing system will fix things. Needing one is not that unusual a JW> situation.
JW> Let us know what it turns out to be,
JW> Jeff
JW> --Jeffry Wisnia
JW> (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
Please see my response to mr. Meehan.
-=> HvacTech2
Hi Jeff, hope you are having a nice day
On 06-Mar-05 At About 08:02:50, Jeff Wisnia wrote to All Subject: Re: Water heater is ALWAYS filling....what could be the problem?
JW> From: Jeff Wisnia
JW> Joseph Meehan wrote:
JW> Joseph, he did say that the running water sound was "continuous". If JW> that's a true statement, I doubt that thermal expansion could cause JW> it, 'eh?
Actually the Thermal expansion could cause the relief to open but it wouldn't be continuous.
-=> HvacTech2
Hi Doug, hope you are having a nice day
On 06-Mar-05 At About 22:32:33, Doug Miller wrote to All Subject: Re: Water heater is ALWAYS filling....what could be the problem?
DM> From: snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
DM> In article , "HvacTech2" DM> wrote >On 06-Mar-05 At About 21:46:03, DM> Joseph Meehan wrote to All >
JM>> Yea, but I bet you as I have seen some that were not. DM> > > Nope. I do everything to code and have never seen one that was DM> improperly > done.
DM> I'd just like to point out that while *you* may do everything to DM> code, there are plenty of hacks in the world who do not - which means DM> Joseph's claim to have seen some that were improperly done is DM> perfectly believable.
DM> However, unless your work is almost entirely in new installations and DM> you do hardly any repairs to existing systems, your claim to have DM> *never* seen one that was improperly done is perfectly absurd.
Nope, I do service only with a little install work. I am exclusively in the commercial side now. I don't think you can honestly say what I have seen in my 30+ years in the trade but as for a T&P I have never seen one terminated improperly.
-=> HvacTech2
Hi but, hope you are having a nice day
On 13-Mar-05 At About 16:17:37, but not that Bob wrote to All Subject: Re: Water heater is ALWAYS filling....what could be the problem?
bntB> From: "Bob(but not that Bob)"
bntB> HvacTech2 wrote:
bntB> If you'd consider reading what the OP said instead of critiquing bntB> other responders, you'd surely know that this install isn't bntB> terminated "properly" so the TP runoff can be easily observed:
And if you would have read his final reply you would have seen I was right the whole time. it wasn't the T&P it was a leak under the slab.
-=> HvacTech2
Is there a possibility that there is a hot water recirculation system here? If he had a leak oin the hot water lines, the water heater would probably fire almost continuously. Maybe a restriction in a recirc system could make a noise like that. If it is a leak, most water meters have a little red or white triangle in the middlr of the dial called a leak detector. It will rotate visibly even with low flow rates. Turn all faucets in the house off and watch the meter to see if there is a leak.
Stretch
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