Two Faucets in Shower? Still Legal?

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On 9/6/2013 11:45 AM, mcadchri wrote:
<snip> > But if you want to put it in your home, go ahead. It's your home. You just

There's another issue as well. If a guest is scalded when using your shower, and sues you, the insurance company will investigate to see if the valve was ever replaced. If it was replaced after the requirement for the scald-proof valves then they will want to know who installed the valve. If it was a licensed plumber then they'll go after them. If it was the homeowner it gets dicey. The homeowner violated the code by installing a non-compliant valve so the insurance company could refuse to pay.
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replying to sms , mcadchri wrote:

That seems accurate. If there's any common knowledge about insurance companies it's that they do not want to pay. They will put forth the time and manpower to avoid paying a claim if possible. So it just seems more logical to avoid all this mess and headache and just have the valve replaced.
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On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 22:45:01 +0000, mcadchri

More nonsense. If your insurance company has that reputation, get another. NOW.
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On 9/6/2013 1:26 PM, sms wrote:

People have not even mentioned one of the primary limiting components as to homeowner repairs/changes to his home. That is the mortgage holder for the property, unless the homeowner owns the property free of a mortgage.
Read the mortgage papers you signed. You must maintain the property so the value is at least as great as the mortgage principal balance. Also, in most cases, the mortgage owner has the right to inspect your property at least annually.
Years ago, my brother worked for a mortgage company. One day he called to see if I knew where a particular house was located. It was right next door, with a board fence between the properties. The mortgage holder asked my brother to inspect the place. The property owner was a contractor and the entire place was filled with lumber, old bathroom fixtures and who knows what else. My brother visited and told the owner the mortgage holder gave him 30 days to clean it all up. Which he did.
Paul
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On Friday, September 6, 2013 5:15:20 PM UTC-4, Paul Drahn wrote:

Oh, good grief. Now we have the mortgage company boogey man?
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On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 16:39:22 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"
If the current bankruptcy fiascos are accurate, people are not even sure who the "mortgage company" is.
My neighbor hasn't made a house payment in 2 1/2 years and they are not even sure actually has the right to foreclose. It certainly is not the company that has the mortgage filed downtown They are still digging through the sales of the loan trying to determine if all the assignments are in order and who actually owns the loan now. There are 2 tax certificates out now and next spring the county will put it on the block. I may bid. Tax liens wipe out all the prior encumbrances.
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On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 20:08:24 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

That's what you get for listening to the major media.

Highly doubtful. It's more likely that the bank is better off with them in the house than having it empty. Some have learned that lesson the hard way.

Like you'll be alone.
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On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 10:36:27 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

The house has been vacant for almost 2 years but she still has a lot of junk there., I maintain the yard
It has not been apparent by looking at the public records. A guy I know does this for a living and he says that loan trail is troubled.

It is certainly worth signing in to the auction (everything is online here) and throwing out a low ball bid. You never know. Sometimes these old 60s era houses go for less than the lot is worth. I know there are a lot of new infrastructure items in the house but it will not show up if you look at the permits.
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On 9/8/2013 9:36 AM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Every home in the area that's not occupied winds up stripped of all material which has any salvage value. Years ago, I remember a nice looking two story house that had the aluminum siding disappear a little at a time. Every time I drove by, I'd see more missing until it was all gone. After the siding was gone, other things such as the windows and doors vanished while bipedal vermin made use of it as a place they did those mysterious unseen things they do. The wrecked house was finally torn down and nothing has been built to replace it. O_o
TDD
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I guess some companies never miss a chance to tell others what to do?
. Christopher A. Young "surge suppressor" and "surge protector" Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
On 9/7/2013 7:39 PM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

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On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 14:15:20 -0700, Paul Drahn

Utter nonsense.

Good grief! Replacing the shower mixing valve doesn't change the value of the home. ...not even $.25.

..and that's relevant to a mixing valve, just how?
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wrote:

It makes me wonder how the baby boomers and their parents actually survived without all of this new "safety".
We had lawn darts, diving boards at every pool, gas cans that you could actually get the gas out of, and a car seat for a kid clipped over the seat back with a little steering wheel in front.
Toilets actually flushed, showers sprayed enough water to get you wet and, oh yes, you had to make sure the water wasn't too hot yourself.
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On Saturday, September 7, 2013 10:52:42 AM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

just

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You know what's rather odd. I've seen it posted that two handle shower faucets are illegal. I've seen it posted that if a plumber ever installs one, anywhere, he'll lose his license. I've seen it posted that if a homeowner installs one, or anything himself for that matter, the insurance company won't pay off on a claim if it someday leaks. I've even heard that the mortgage company gestapo is gonna come inspect and catch you someday. But, oddly, for something that is supposed to be so illegal, if you just google for two handle shower faucets you immediately come up with many two handle ones being sold here in the USA, made by major plumbing eqpt suppliers, like Moen. Go figure..
http://www.fixtureuniverse.com/products/view.aspx?skuP90158&af 26&c se26&gclid=CJyUhbe7urkCFYui4AodxD8ATA&gclsrc=aw.ds
http://www.fixtureuniverse.com/products/view.aspx?skuP90158&af 26&c se26&gclid=CLDek5q8urkCFUmi4AodfhkARQ&gclsrc=aw.ds
http://www.faucet.com/moen-82402-double-handle-tub-and-shower-valve-trim-ki t-with-single-function-showerhead-from-the-adler-collection/p1676131?source =gg-gba-pla_1676131____13653109608&s_kwcid=PTC!pla!!!38526465528!g!!136 53109608&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CPvtlKy8urkCFdOj4Aod5CwAZw
BTW, for the google handicapped, like Harry K, who can't find anything for themselves, I've provided some links above.
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Just as an aside...
The times I've gotten almost-burned taking a shower, were always with a one-handle control.
Seems if you move it towards "hot", it gets _very_ hot unpredictably. If you move it towards "cold", it gets _very_ cold, unpredictably. Almost impossible to control it in small increments of temperature.
With a two-handle (hot/cold) control setup, you can set "one side" (say, the hot side), and then gradually add cool water to balance things out.
I would never want a single-knob control.
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wrote:

Your hot water must be very hot. We had a similar problem but the hot water went up to 180F (right out of the domestic coil on the boiler). One got used to controlling it, though. It sure surprised some visitors. Oh, and don't flush! In short, the plumbing in that house sucked. It wasn't the mixing valve(s).

Dumb. Dual valve controls always leak. The single valve models have an easily replaced cartridge. That said, not all single knob mixing valves are alike. Some only have temperature control, no volume. In short, Id *never* have the individual hot/cold knobs, anywhere outside, perhaps, a slop sink.
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Sounds like you had a cheap, uncontrolled valve. I do like pressure balanced valves. They strike a reasonable compromise between the cost of a temperature controlled valve and getting scalded when someone flushes a nearby toilet. Never seen a PB valve that wasn't single control.
That said, what does annoy me are single knob shower valves that force you to dial through full cold before they start blending in hot water. Always get hit with that last little blast of cold water as I turn off the water and exit the shower. Plus, there is no way to dial back the pressure - it has to be full on or controlled at the head.
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It's not about those of us who have survived, it's about the many who haven't.
Compare the percentage of children who survive car crashes in today's car seats vs. the survival rate for those in the "car seat with a little steering wheel in front".
I suppose you want us to go back to cars without crumble zones or air bags. Many of us have survived accidents without all that "safety". Unfortunately, there are many people that are no longer with us because they weren't "inconvenienced" by all this mandated safety equipment.
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On Mon, 9 Sep 2013 01:46:46 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03

...and how about all those little tykes who are never allowed to play in the dirt and then get asthma and all sorts of diseases because their immune systems don't work properly.
"Safety" is a two-way street.
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On Friday, September 6, 2013 2:45:08 PM UTC-4, mcadchri wrote:

What the insurance company does in that case is to pay the claim to the homeowner and then if they believe they have a claim against the plumber who did the work, they go after them to recover. That is very different from what you stated, which is that they deny the claim.
That's why professional companies also carry insurance

So you see, it

But you said or at least strongly implied, that if they did it themselves and it fails because something wasn't done right, then the insurance company won't pay the claim, because they were unlicensed.
"The only way around this is to have an unlicensed individual

That is what has been claimed here many times. It seems rather odd. You can be an idiot and leave a pot of oil burning on the stove, it burns the whole house down and they pay. You leave a window open, it rains, the house gets damaged, they pay. But you put a water valve in and it leaks and they aren't going to pay because you're not licensed? Maybe it's happened, but I'd like to see an example.

There is only a permit pulled if it's necessary. There are all kinds of repairs being done by homeowners in various parts of the country that require no permit.

I would think that would be true if the AHJ has adopted that part of the code. Not saying it probably isn't now in force across most of the USA, especially the populated parts, but do you know what every backwater community everywhere has done?

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Sorry I have to resurrect this because I'm pissed as hell at these bullshit "scald safe" faucets in my home.
I recently installed an inline water heater. It's not a high-end brand, Ec o-Temp or something like that, we needed a new water heater and this one wa s priced similar to a 40-gallon tank heater, so we got it. It runs on prop ane (we do not have natural gas).
Just so you understand how inline water heaters work. When you turn on the hot water anywhere in the house, this thing fires up a propane burner whic h heats a coil of copper pipe that winds through the unit. As the water fl ows through, it's heated by the propane. There is no tank - water is heate d on-demand as you need it. I have no idea whether this is a "feature" (or lack of) in my specific inli ne heater, or if all inline heaters work this way. The problem is the inte nsity of the burner does not adjust adequately based on flow rate. If you turn the hot on full blast, the water is passing through the flames much mo re quickly, and doesn't heat up as much. If you turn on the hot water only a little, it passes through the flames much more slowly and you get much h otter water.
What this means is, if I want cooler water, I can't reduce the hot handle - that reduces the quantity of hot water, but increases the temperature of t he hot side. I have to INCREASE the cold side to make it cooler, and leave the hot alone.
This is IMPOSSIBLE to do with a single handle faucet. When you turn it tow ards cold, it is both reducing the hot and increasing the cold, and the net difference ends up being about the same. The more you turn it towards the blue, the hotter the hot water gets, which cancels out the increased suppl y of cold water. One temp is all you get.
That is, until the hot water is trickling so slowly it reaches 140*F, at wh ich point the safety kicks on at the inline water heater and shuts down eve rything. Then you're back to cold water no matter how you turn the faucet.
Yes, I've tried adjusting the little valve thingy on the sides of the singl e-handle faucets to increase the max amount of hot water - makes no differe nce. And also, about half the faucets in my house, the set screws were so crusty/rusted I either couldn't turn them or broke something trying to get them loose.
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