Snow Cover On Roof Provides Wind Protection?

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wrote:

At this point, I'm talking about the vacuum between some people's ears.
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On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 06:32:01 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

I did.
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LouB wrote:

Better than uncontrolled acceleration, undoubtedly.
Unless they're fully hydraulic steering (of which I know of no autos; do have such a tractor), it's only the power assist that's lost, not steering. Same w/ the brakes, it's only the power assist.
The actual recommendation is to shift to neutral and let it over-rev; what possibility/likelihood of blowing an engine is I've not firm estimate but if that happens you're in same boat anyway...
--
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dpb wrote:

I thought I heard someone being interviewed and she said she couldn't shift out of gear, but I could be wrong.
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She was too paniced to shift out of gear. She doesn't even belong behind the wheel of a car.
What gets me are the people that plow into stuff at 90MPH, NINETY MILES PER HOUR, after experiencing the uncontrolled acceleration problem.
How the hell fast were they going in the first place that they didn't have time to calm down and react to the situaiton before the car got to 90MPH? Even from 70MPH, it takes several seconds to hit 90, plenty of time for even the most bubble-headed driver to recover from the initial shock and shift into neutral, or turn off the key. Romping on the brakes until they get hot would buy you several more seconds to figure out what to do.
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On Mar 1, 3:40pm, snipped-for-privacy@rochester.rr.com wrote:

I don't know, but in the case of the Lexus that killed 4 people in CA, the car was going out of control long enough for a passenger to call 911 and be on the call long enough to tell what was happening. The driver was a CA Highway Patrol officer, who you would think would have enough sense and understanding of what to do so with that amount of time you would think he would have tried all the obvious things.
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On Mon, 1 Mar 2010 14:53:59 -0800 (PST), snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

CHIPPY or rocket scientist doesn't make any difference . He wasn't smart enough to stop the car - doesn't say much for his intelligence. He obviously did NOT do the obvious things - like put it out of gear or shut it down. Getting into a car and not knowing how to operate the controls is just plain stupid - particularly for a "professional" driver like a COP.
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On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 20:07:57 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

So the defect in these cars is the fault of the stupid drivers?
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On Mar 2, 5:13am, snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

No, the deaths and accidents are the fault of stupid drivers. Anyone who doesn't know enough to at least put it in nuetral or turn off the ignition does not belong behind the wheel. Too bad that that encompasses at least half of the drivers out there.
Harry K
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On Tue, 2 Mar 2010 07:34:33 -0800 (PST), Harry K

Good grief!
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snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

...
Other than possibly being in very close quarters at initiation of the event, one has to wonder what actually did happen other than panic and inappropriate or incorrect response. If one were in a parking space and it surged, it would be highly likely to hit something directly in front/rear before had time to react. Similarly in close traffic. But on open road as many seem to have been, one wonders why the disasters, indeed.
But since there are no black boxes and personal recounts are notoriously inaccurate (both for lack of actual recollection and knowledge as well as for face-saving reasons) there's really no way to know what any individual did in any given circumstance. And, of course, if there's not a record of failure to respond to an input as well as the response, even a black box wouldn't be the unequivocal answer, either.
And, unfortunately, there's no equivalent of air-crash safety post event forensic investigation so afaik there's been no exhaustive study of any of the events beyond simply police/highway patrol routine accident reports. What, if anything, Toyota has done from any of the reports is not publicly available altho one presumes at least something.
The CA incident is indeed the most mind-boggling of all I've heard and doesn't say much for CHIPS training if actually was anything other than a desk-bound supervisor or somesuch individual behind the wheel.
Panic and untrained/unskilled drivers certainly have a large component to play in end results methinks as well even though the initiating event is hardware/software related it appears...
--
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What is mind boggling is that you want to blame the victims for not being able to overcome something THAT SHOULD NEVER, EVER, HAPPEN.
The victims are 0% to blame.
If you are walking down the street and some thug shoots you, should I hold you partly to blame for not wearing a bullet proof vest when walking? After all, people get shot walking down the street every day in America. You really must be an incompetent idiot not to have taken that into account.
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snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote: ...

...
So, _nothing_ ever breaks in your world?
"Should" ain't "doesn't" no matter what it is; if it's mechanical it can fail.
Not reacting properly when there apparently was quite a lot of time (evidenced by 911 call in the CA incident) makes the participant an (albeit unwilling) accomplice in the result of a failure (granted) not of their doing initially.
Unless there was a complete failure of the ignition system _and_ transmission shifter as well as the accelerator, then yes, there's no doubt there was operator error involved as well as the mechanical failure.
Nobody's blamed those involved for the initiating event; only questioned the outcome as being inevitable.
The counter example cited is too dissimilar to be of any import -- in that case the remedy is to take some unusual precaution a priori (of course, if one is proposing a walk in a particularly unsavory area after dark if just might not be so unusual to either choose another entertainment venue or take the precautions); in the case under discussion it's the lack of an appropriate response to the event after it has occurred when there is ample opportunity to take corrective action (and afaik there's no data that says such actions aren't possible).
So, I'll disagree with the assertion that there's no culpability in severity of outcome independent of the driver in the incidents until and unless it's shown that the remedial actions were unavailable.
--
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Rationalizew any way you wish. There is a stack of dead bodies that says you are wrong.
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On Mar 2, 4:55pm, snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

And the cure for _not_ dieing has been published and should have been known by every one of the victims (provided there was _time_ to react properly). You "totally innocent" stance is groundless. Every driver should know enough about the vehicle operation to take the proper action without having to be told.
Harry K
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On Tue, 2 Mar 2010 20:47:18 -0800 (PST), Harry K

You are truly "lost in space"
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On Mar 3, 3:35am, snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

So you think operator's of equipment should not know how the thing operates or what simple things to do to stop it if it malfunctions? Strange.
Harry K
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On Tue, 02 Mar 2010 19:55:09 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

I only learned two or three things in my 18 months lin law school and one was that were it not for fear of law suits, a lot of people would be incredibly negligent. We have one or two people like that in this thread.
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snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote: ...

AFAIK, there's no indication there _had_ to be any dead bodies other than the drivers failed to take remedial action.
Can you find any indication anywhere that the simple expedient of turning off the engine ignition wouldn't have stopped the vehicle?
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dpb wrote:

When I was a teenager, I was driving the family '67 Chrysler aircraft carrier when the throttle return spring broke on the big 383 V8. I cut the ignition, pulled over to the side of the road, opened the hood, fixed it with a pair of pliers and went on my way. If it had happened to my mother or one of my sisters, the outcome may have been different. I'm not picking on women but my aunt was driving down a highway when she saw a wrong way driver coming straight at her, she let go of the wheel, covered her face and started screaming. My male cousin grabbed the wheel and steered the car to safety. Perhaps drivers education classes should take a hint from aircraft pilot training and train for the inevitable odd mechanical or human brain failure.
TDD
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