Shiny Spots on T&G Pine Ceiling????

[infiniteMPG]

We just finished up putting tongue & groove pine boards in the ceiling of our porch. The porch area is about 25-feet wide so we trimmed down

14-foot and 12-foot boards so there is a single alternating joint in each row. Looks good and we needed to stain it so we sampled more stains then we can shake a stick at and decided on Minwax's Ipswitch Pine. Just now finished up all the staining (and am barely able to type from the overhead work) and it looks great with one exception. Some of the board parts have a high shine to them and other parts are very dull and flat. Was just differences in parts of the wood as you can see the patterns in the shiny areas. Biggest problem is the bare pine was light and when you see the light reflection on the shiny spots it looks like we missed spots but we didn't.

What we were wondering is if someone could recommend maybe a satin clear protector or something we can spray or brush over top of the stain, not only to protect the wood, but also to unify the finish appearance. Would prefer a satin or dull finish over shine, but would like something easy to apply like in spray cans. We have some Thompson's Water Sealer in spray cans but don't want to "test" on the actual ceiling unless we're sure we're going to do the whole thing.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

[franz fripplfrappl]

When I was at Menards to inquire about finishing pine treads, I was told there is a product for prepping the wood so the stain would take evenly. Can't recall the product name but I think it was also by Minwax.

I suspect the difference you are seeing is due to porosity of wood and presence of sap/oil in the wood. If a penetrating stain is used, it seems reasonable to expect that the stain would be absorbed differently depending on structure of wood. A topical stain would probably cover more evenly.

[hrhofmann]

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Give everything a week to dry, then apply any kind of finish product that you prefer. If you want to double-check the final appearance, I would stain a scrap of leftover material, let it wait a few days, and then try youtr finish of choice on the scrap to make sure it is what you want.

Bob Hofmann

[nofaith]

Don't worry about it. Once a hurricane, tornado, fire, flood, or terrorist attack gets to it, you won't even notice the difference. Since the United States is quickly being destroyed by one of the above disasters, it's only a short matter of time before you won't have to look at it anymore.

[ransley]

Dont consider spray cans, it will be in your face and lungs, it will cost a fortune, it probably wont come out even. What you see is the sap areas. To protect it and keep it from darkening alot use an exterior water base poly and roll it on.

[HeyBub]

I think that's the consequence of real wood - it's not uniform.

'Bout the only way for a similar project to come out perfectly is to use laminate flooring.

Before you scream "nuts!" I once suggested carpeting the walls of a computer room. The carpet people did the job, then went outside and ate bugs, but the noise level went down dramatically.

You could probably get by with the least expensive laminate - it won't have much traffic. Better glue it, though.

[infiniteMPG]

Thanks for the suggestions on prep work but the ceiling is already done with the T&G and the staining is already done, too. Was looking for suggestions on a satin wood protector that might unify the finish appearance over top of the existing stain. Stuff like Thompson's I don't think changes the appearance, only the water resistance. We have some test boards already done from when we were shopping for a color we liked so we're set for that.

[dpb]

infiniteMPG wrote: ...

Mostly it's the difference in that you didn't sand it all uniformly before putting it up, did you? Nor did you use a sanding sealer to help blend out the differences, I expect.

Unfortunately, the only thing that will "unify" the finish at this point is paint--it's too late to compensate for what wasn't done initially.

The only way for sure is to sand it all to a uniform grit, apply a sanding sealer and then restain. Not what you wanted to hear, I know.

A varnish or other clearcoat at this point will on accentuate the differences, not blend them.

--

[RicodJour]

Actually, it's a consequence of not knowing what you're doing and not doing the research beforehand. I do lots of woodwork and have to worry about the completed product looking too uniform. If it looks too uniform it starts looking like it's fake. I've learned to leave in some of the imperfections as indication of natural products and handwork.

Sorry, OP, but you should ask the questions and do the research before you do the work. As FF noted, pine is a funky wood to stain as it gets blotchy without pre-treatment with a wood conditioner/sealer. Stain is not a finish treatment, so you should have planned on topcoating it anyway. Since your major objection is the difference in sheen, any polyurethane, varnish, really any clear coat at all, will solve that problem.

R

[dpb]

RicodJour wrote: ...

I doubt it will suit; while it may have the surface reflectivity, I suspect it will actually only accentuate the difference between the underlying finish unless it is sanded uniformly, sealed, then stained again first...

--

[RicodJour]

The OP only mentioned the sheen variation, not color. If sheen is his concern putting a coat of any clear finish on will provide a pretty much uniform sheen. He's doing a porch ceiling, not furniture. If it were a piece of furniture, yes, you're right about essentially starting over.

R

[dpb]

RicodJour wrote: ...

It might, but I'd not count on it, at least w/o several coats and rubbing out. If it's noticeable enough and w/ the wide variation in surface texture/roughness in standard milled stock, the absorption of the finish is going to be variable as well. Not to mention that it will "pop" the imperfections in the portions that are dull now even more in comparison to the rest.

My recommendation to OP would be, before applying anything else to the ceiling, take some of the leftover material and finish it as they have that already up. Then test a satin varnish or oil finish and see if it does, indeed, solve their objections. My guess is it still "won't suit" w/o more effort...

But, only they'll be able to judge, but they'll certainly be well served to experiment on a test section before jumping onto the ceiling...

It is, of course, as you say, just a ceiling and w/ time they'll no longer even notice it... :)

But, if they want to be happy their effort wasn't in vain from the gig-go, ...

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[George]

You missed the most important part of finishing softwoods (especially pine). Pine needs a pre-conditioner to tone down the effects you are seeing. You can buy pre-stain conditioners or classically mix up your own such as really dilute varnish.

[David Nebenzahl]

On 7/4/2008 7:06 AM dpb spake thus:

I disagree. Although it's difficult to know exactly what the ceiling looks like, based on what the OP said above--that the differences are in sheen, not color--it *should* be possible to fix the problem, at least somewhat, by applying a clear sealer of some kind. I'd say anything that's not too glossy should work.

The other good suggestion was to try this on some of the leftover wood. Apply stain the same way you did to the ceiling, preferably to a couple of pieces of wood that will yield different sheens as your ceiling does, then overcoat them and see what the result is. I'd bet you can go a long way towards fixing this problem without having to resort to resanding or refinishing the whole thing.

[dpb]

David Nebenzahl wrote: ...

...

Well, I said it _might_, but I'm skeptical they'll be pleased and I'd strongly recommend against it w/o trying it on a sample piece before.

My objection/concern/whatever you want to call it is that while you _may_ fix the sheen, the clear finish will accentuate the difference in the pieces appearance owing to the differing absorption so that what now appears roughly equivalent in color will then not only have the reflectivity difference but the color differences are then going to be accentuated.

Again, it's not possible to tell for sure w/o seeing it, but I'm trying to prevent a worse situation than they already have that would be even more difficult to try to repair...

It's easy to say "sure, go ahead" when it's not you who will have the issues to deal with.

I'd far rather err on the side of caution when I know there's a real potential for it to come out not at all like they expect...

--

[infiniteMPG]

u do the work. =A0

Didn't know that would turn out to be an issue or I would of asked up front :O/

-treatment with a wood conditioner/sealer. Stain is not a finish treatment,= so you should have planned on topcoating it anyway. =A0Since your major ob= jection is the difference in sheen, any polyurethane, varnish, really any c= lear coat at all, will solve that problem.

I identified the worst shiny places and sanded them with a small electric sander and some rough paper. I blended and feathered the sanding and then went and re-stained the sanded spaces and feathered that back out along the boards. After drying the shiny spots aren't so shiny (at least no harsh edges to the shiny areas). Might leave it but if it would be better protected with something and that something would also give a little more uniformity then all the better. Also some of the knots had fallen completely out so I filled the holes with stainable wood filler and then stained them with a small artist brush the same color as the rest of the knot. Worked out pretty good (a lot better then BIG holes in the wood). The knots and odd grains in the wood pretty much assures us this won't look fake regardless of what we do.

Thanks!