Hello all -
I'm getting ready to have my roof replaced, and have some
questions pertaining to shingles.
A roofer/siding guy who looked at things and gave me an
estimate mentioned something about "Timberline" or
"Timberlane" shingles as what he regularly used. Not sure of
the name; I have found a website for Timberline shingles but
not for "Timberlane".
I had previously been considering what are commonly called
"3-tab" type shingles (I was interested in them because of
their "lay-flat" look), but he recommended that I NOT use
them, because they have a limited lifespan when compared to
other types of shingles.
I _think_ he was referring to what are called
"architectural" type shingles. He said they'll last longer
and come with a better warranty.
Would anyone comment on the longevity of 3-tab vis-a-vis the
"architectural" type shingles? Was he telling me the truth?
I'd also like to ask about shingle COLORS. I'd prefer a
charcoal or darker-colored roof, as the houses on either
side of me are grey and brown. Just something different.
But I was wondering about shingle color and heat transfer.
Will a darj roof "absorb" considerably more heat from the
summer sun? Or does it make little difference? If heat IS a
factor, I'll choose a lighter color. (Note: my attic has
insulation installed underneath the rafters, pretty
I have these type shingles. My old shingles had a lot of warps and
roofer recommended these to remove show through of texture under
shingles since he had to cut some off. A complete re-roof, removing old
shingles would not have this problem. My "new roof" is about 15 years
old and looks great. Shingle warranty is 25 years.
3-tab shingles are the lowest of the low as far as longevity is
concerned. Architectural shingles are rated for longer lifespan,
easily. Shingles are now rated according to their expected lifespan
instead of the old shingle weight. 3 tabs are typically 20 year
(recently upgraded from 15 year) while architectural are 25 to 50 year
John, if I understand correctly, you have insulation up against the
bottom of your sheathing? If that is the case, then I would go with the
lightest color you can get. The insulation does not allow air
circulation along the bottom of the sheathing. This causes a build up
of heat, which drastically shortens the lifespan of shingles. My advice
would be to lower the insulation to provide an airgap and make sure you
have both soffit and ridge vents (a reroof is a good time to do
ridgevents). If that is too much to do, then go with lighter colored
shingles, or better; a metal roof.
Timberline is just a GAF line l like Oakridge is an Owens Corning line.
Yes they are called architectural. They do have and claim a 30 & 50 year
line. On the ones I used, the sealing strip ran continuously from one end
to the oter on every shingle. This can't be a bad thing especially in
higher wind areas.
Architecturals seem to be becoming the norm. More desireable for home sale.
Personally, I like the look better.
I have no personal "test of time" info for you. I just did a roof with
Oakridge. I don't think I have 30 yrs left to check on them. You need to go
look at a regular 3 tab and an architectural at a store. They'll be on
display. You'll see the difference.
They hide roof defects better. From the roofers standpoint, they are easier
to install because thee are no tabs to space on ends and there is less
waste but they are more difficult to cut. Just info, not really your
Just make sure they are AR (algae resistant) rated. Most are. It helps
prevent black algae from forming on the horth side of roofs. Especially
important if you choose a light color or are in a high humidity area like
the south or mid-south.
The things you don't mention is about the rest of the job they will do and
you should be asking them - new drip edge, drip edge width, rrof & chimney
flashing, WSU (waterproof shingle underlayment) on eaves and vallys,
roofing felt, tearoff vs another layer, disposal of old shingles,
galvanized nails vs. zinc, cost per underlayment sheet if needed, etc. Some
things are climate dependent. All this should be in your written estimate.
If it isn't, assume you aren't getting it.
<< The things you don't mention is about the rest of the job
they will do and
you should be asking them - new drip edge, drip edge width,
rrof & chimney
flashing, WSU (waterproof shingle underlayment) on eaves and
roofing felt, tearoff vs another layer, disposal of old
galvanized nails vs. zinc, cost per underlayment sheet if
needed, etc. Some
things are climate dependent. All this should be in your
written estimate >>
The guy who looked at things did mention that he'd also
reface the chimney and install copper flashing (chimney
currently has loose bricks). He said something about an "ice
guard" going up perhaps 3 feet from the drip edge. New
gutters too (mine are falling apart).
The entire existing roof has to come off, down to the
rafters (currently has at least 2 layers of asphalt shingles
on top of wood shingles over batten strips).
He also mentioned that he'd install ridge vents (house has
This will be on a modest rectangular 2-story, main roof is
peaked gable, no dormers. Also a small "bay" (not window) on
side, lean-to type of porch on the back, plus the garage
roof, which is worse than the house.
This includes taking down a couple of small trees in the way.
His price was $10,450 for everything (including a couple of
dumpsters to haul everything away). I had figured at least
$8,000 and up to 12.
I haven't called him back yet.
On Wednesday, January 23, 2008 7:16:38 PM UTC-5, Red Green wrote:
2 ft past heated wall is code now in most areas subject to
snow/freezing. But I think a lot of roofers don't get the basic
idea and just put one 3 ft pass down the eaves regardless of how
long the eaves are. In the case of a front porch, it could be that
12 feet is what's needed to get from the eave to 2 ft past the
If you live in a snow-free area, ridge vents are better than other
vents because they pull out more air, partly because the properly
designed ones, that is, those with a vertical fin on each side, don't
let wind push air into the attic but instead always suck out air,
regardless of which way the wind is blowing. The fins also help keep
You also need soffit vents to bring air into the attic, but that's
true regardless of the type of roof vents.
Light grey shingles, often labelled "white", absorb about 90% of the
sunlight, while any other color, even light tan, absorbs about 99% of
it. So roof insulation matters a lot more than roof color.
Consumer Reports reviewed shingles in Aug. 1997 and Aug. 2003 and
found that price, length of warranty, architectural vs. 3-tab, brand,
and weight had almost no relationship to quality, although many of the
top-scoring shingles were by Certainteed. Because of this, we bought
the GAF 3-tab Royal Sovereign shingles that were warranted for 25
years and rated about the same or better as GAF architectural
Timberline shingles (three types - Ultra, Select 40, and 30)
1997 results for GAF 3-tab Royal Sovereign:
tear resistance: D
pull resistance: B
nail holding: B
wind resistance: A
sun resistance: B
2003 results for GAF Timberline Ultra and Timberline 40 architectural:
wind resistance: C
impact resistance: D
2003 results for GAF architectural Timberline 30:
wind resistance: D
impact resistance: C
Be careful in choosing the roofer because the one we had was so bad
that they ended up redoing the roof completely -- a year later, not
because the shingles were bad but because of the really sloppy
installation and the failure to use the contracted 6 nails/shingle
versus the usual 4/shingle..Be sure the company is authorized by the
single manufacturer so you'll have warranty coverage even if they go
belly-up, and ask if they use temporary crews, i.e., foreign workers,
often illegals, or only their own employees. Our roofing company said
they used no temporary crews, but the first crew was definitely
temporary, and when the roof was finally redone, every worker was a
full time employee, probably all supervisory because nobody was
younger than 45. Also the leader of the first crew was fired because
of the poor initial roofing job.
On Friday, January 25, 2008 1:16:51 AM UTC-5, larry moe 'n curly wrote:
Agree that color isn't going to make a significant difference.
I saw a study done in FL on identical houses with different colors
and types of roofs. From white shingles to black shingles in FL
in summer, there was something like 10% difference in cooling
energy used in the house. But, that was with the house unoccupied.
When the houses were occupied, the percentage dropped to just a few
percent. Conclusion was it might make a difference of $20 a year
in cooling costs. And of course in northern climates, it's safe
to assume that in the winter with a darker roof you get some small
benefit from a darker roof that would lessen the effect even more.
Lighter-colored shingles last longer, have lower surface temperature
than dark shingles.
As I've stated before, any heat-transfer that you *hope* exists in the
winter to gain attic heat into the house will bite your ass in the
summer as that same heat transfer will be an extra load on your AC.
Dark shingles in northern climates can add to the ice-damming effect
where snow melts on a dark roof, runs down to the eves where it's colder
and freezes, creating water backup under the shingles and huge icicles
hanging off gutters.
On Monday, July 15, 2013 9:47:27 AM UTC-4, Home Guy wrote:
Then show us a manufacturer's product line where the length of
the warranty is based on the color. And how good do light colored
shingles look after 10 or 15 years compared to dark ones. The few
light colored roofs around here look like hell in 5 - 10 years
because they show dirt far more than dark ones.
Why, just because you say so? If darker shingles make the attic a little
hotter, then the effect you have that increases cooling in summer will
reduce heating costs in winter.
Oh, so is it or isn't it BS, make up your mind.
Yawn... Dark shingles are by far the most popular color in northern
climates, probably 90%+ of the roofs out there. There have been black
shingles on my roof for 30 years and no ice dams.
I would call the guy and make him repeat himself, just to be clear.
This "Timberlane" may be some fly-by-night cut-rate shingle
manufacturer trying to play off the good name of Timberline.
Timberlane, Timberline, same difference, right? NOT NECESSARILY.
I would advise against hiring this roofer. You should not have
questions like this if he was doing his job. He should have shown you
the difference between the shingles, the available colors.
On Thursday, January 24, 2008 10:30:18 AM UTC-5, email@example.com wrote:
And even more importantly he should have given the OP
a written quote. Only then can you compare one quote to another,
see what some guys may be leaving out, etc.
The shingles are probably Timberline. I would definitely go with
that type of arch shingle. They are substantially heavier, last
longer, have a nicer look and are what is being used today on all
the better homes with shingles. The cost of the shingles is about
30% more than a 3-tab. The rest of the materials, labor, etc is
the same, so it makes maybe a 10 -15% difference in the overall price.
On Wednesday, January 23, 2008 1:33:13 PM UTC-5, John Albert wrote:
i personally would use the 3 tab with a architectural look over any archite
ctural shingle because they give the nice architectural look every one is a
fter but unlike architectural with is pretty much two shingles compressed t
ogether so if installation is done incorrectly the will fall apart when the
hotter weather starts to melt the tar strip on them iv been doing roofing
for 10 years now and that is what iv learns also having a attic fan over ri
dge vent would greatly increase the life span on any shingle and also lower
s your cooling bill by 20-30% by truly sucking the hot air out of the attic
On Sunday, July 14, 2013 7:57:36 PM UTC-4, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
How do you get an architectural shingle look in a 3-tab? It's
the fact that architectural shingles are in part two shingles
together that gives them the thickness variation that makes the
so if installation is done incorrectly the will fall apart when the hotter weather starts to melt the tar strip on them iv been doing roofing for 10 years now and that is what iv learns
Then you should know that there is nothing about basic architectural
shingles, like Timberline, OC TruDef, etc that make them difficult to
install. Anyone doubting this can read the simple instruction that come
with the product. If you can't line up a shingle and put 4 nails in
the nailing locations, you shouldn't be doing roofing. If a roofer can't
handle an arch shingle, how is he going to do the harder stuff where you
can really screw up a job, eg flashing?
also having a attic fan over ridge vent would greatly increase the life span on any shingle and also lowers your cooling bill by 20-30% by truly sucking the hot air out of the attic space
Which has been disproven many times. Most experts today recommend ridge
vents over power fans. And for any choice of ridge vent, fan etc to have
a 20 -30% effect on cooling cost, the house would have to have no insulation.
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