Specifying the type and installation method in _writing_ would be a very
wise decision. Hope I don't come off as a sales person on the manufacturer
& type we always used.
My choice was Shingle Vent II by Certainteed. At the time, it was the
_only_ brand & type, which met Dade County's stringent code because of the
severe wind driven elements. (BTW, I roofed in the Midwest, not Florida).
I would specify the ridge is to be cut no more than 1" on each side from
the peak of the rafter/truss. A line to be chalked to follow for cutting,
with the blade of the saw being no more than 1/16" through the plywood. -
Reason being is some never set the saw depth, and they attempt to free hand
their cuts, cutting to far down from the peak.
I would also specify a bead of Geocel 3300, with a minimum width of 1/4" x
1/4" high running the continuous length of the ridge vent of both sides, so
the vent can be imbedded (this will prevent wind driven elements from
entering underneath. Mechanical fasteners to be _screw_ type, being 2-1/2"
in length being placed at least every 24" O.C. on each side to hold the
vent down. Shingle caps to be mechanically installed with barbed nails
being at least 2" in length.
I would not let anyone install the rolled vent. At first, people thought
the netting/cloth/fabric used in these would deteriorate. They are designed
to keep bugs/wasps out. The problem is attics get a lot of dust, after
years, the cloth collects the dust, reducing the ability to function
Maybe I come off as being anal on how to install roofing. However, back in
the day, I was proud of my work, which consisted of highly specified
projects, down to the diameter of a fastener head. In fact, I'd still be
doing this type of work, if age didn't catch up with me some years ago.
No disrespect intended here because I think your knowledge is helpful
but I wouldn't spec all of this (even if possible). No problem spec'g
material because that's easy to confirm but spec'g workmanship is
another unless you have an inspector up there during installation.
Here's a perfect example of why certain items need to be spec'd. You can
_never_ include too much information in a contract to protect yourself &
The whole idea is, to let the contractor know, you won't tolerate short
cuts. There's too many contractors to take advantage of people not in the
know. Roofing/HVAC/Mechanics are a few trades where the general public get
totally ripped off.
Agree with you but still agree with my earlier posts. Where I think
the specs really help is educating the homeowner what and how it's
installed (well supposed to be). Then if it's not, legally he has
some recourse assuming the roofer is still in business.
When I recently had a new roof, I took a different approach. I bought
the whole crew lunch one day hoping that they knew I appreciated their
hard work. In return I hoped they would do a good job. So far so
Then why did you say that specifiying how something is to be
installed is a waste unless you have an inspector up there? You
think your chance of prevailing on your attempts at recourse is better
or worse when you have workmanship:
A - specified in the contract in writing
B - unstated
As far as requiring an inspector, many of us are competent enough
to take a look ourselves....
Yes, you were against them, before you were in favor of
"No disrespect intended here because I think your knowledge is
but I wouldn't spec all of this (even if possible). No problem
material because that's easy to confirm but spec'g workmanship is
another unless you have an inspector up there during installation. "
And aybe the work gets done without being looked at in
your world, where you rely on hamburgers, but not in mine.
On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 05:49:47 -0800 (PST), " firstname.lastname@example.org"
Ok... let me say it this way... I'm not against specs but I wouldn't
spec everything but if you feel that it will make them do a better
job, do it. I just hope they can read them and understand them if
you go into a lot of detail. I once was offered a job in Florida
because the guy told me his crews (underground utilities) couldn't
read the blueprints.
I guess I have different experiences about kindness than you so I rely
on kindness when I have no other choices.
There you go again. Kindness is your only choice? I
guess if you're so dumb you can't spec key workmanship points, put
those in the contract, and then keep an eye on the contractor to
make sure it's done that way, then relying on kindness may be
your only option. But I'd say it's not a good one. And if the job
doesn't get done to your satisfaction and you wind up in a dispute
with the contractor, I'd rather have a contract with specs, than
a receipt from McDonalds.
Certainly a kind gesture, however, it has to be one of the most silliest
ways I've heard of, in hopes you get a good job instead of relying on
contract language. Ok, now my sarcasm seems to take over for a bit. Did
you buy them a hamburger, or a double hamburger? After all, the type of
job you got depended on it.
All wording is in a contract for a purpose, although you may find it to be
gibberish. You appear to be attempting to justify a bad decision you made,
without properly educating yourself before hand.
I think we're on the same page here. I looked into the
vaious ridge vents a bit and saw that a lot of pros were
recommending the Shingle Vent II. The leading contractor
for the job is proposing OC Duration shingles. OC makes
a similar ridge vent. It's rigid plastic, comes in 4ft sections,
and allows 20 sq in of airflow per foot. So, I think I'm going
to spec that.
On another subject, one roof section which is over the
garage is low profile. It's right at the 2:12 min pitch for
shingles. Two of the contractors want to put down ice
barrier over the whole roof section.. The other one wants to use
ice dam on the lower, two layers of felt on the upper part.
His thinking is that applying a rubber like surface over the
whole thing is not good, because it's better to let the
sheathing breathe even a little from the top through the felt
I looked into this a bit online and seems there are folks vigorously
arguing both sides of that one two. The ice barrier the
whole roof approach guys claim:
Done properly it's virtually impossible for water to even
get behind the ice barrier material.
Even if it does, the roof can still dry out from the other
side, ie attic side.
With felt and shingles the roof really can't breathe from
the outside anyway.
Additional factors are that this section of roof has the
least venting. It has continous soffit vents, but only
a fraction of that near the top. I can increase that a bit
but it's still not going to have the best venting. I also
can't do a rolled roof, because it faces the street. The
existing shingles have worked fine for 28 years and I'm
assuming there is at most just 2 layers of felt, if that.
Also they did lay the shingles closer together, I think
3" exposure vs 5". But can't do that with the new
architectural shingle. Spec for that shingle say 2:12
is the min pitch, so I'm right at min there.
And thanks for all the excellent advice...
Without a bit more info, I can't say for sure, but I'm betting your soffit
vents are woefully too small.
The "standard" * is 1 sq ft of soffit vent for every 150 sq ft of attic
space. If your house, for example, is 50 x 50 feet (2500 sq ft), you need
about 20 sq ft of soffit, or At your 2" wide existing soffits, and ignoring
dimunition for screening, you'd need (mumble, mumble, carry the three...)
2880 sq inches of soffit. At 2" wide, that works out to be 1400 linear feet.
Now since this example house's perimeter is only 200 feet, well, yep, you're
There IS a fall-back rule and it's this: You can't have too much soffit
* I think this "standard" is for passive ventilation. If you have fans that
are putting the big suck on the attic, you can probably get by with much
On Thursday 21 February 2013 20:52 HeyBub wrote in alt.home.repair:
The UK guideline for building regs is 1" continuous equivalent.
That means a 1" wide slot all the way around - or the equivalent area. As
this is obviously bad for letting mice in, it's usually implement as a 2"
wide series of slots (50/50) or a 1" wide slot with mesh.
That's the soffits - obviously it needs to be balanced with vents up top.
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/
http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage
I strongly disagree, for reasons I worked out above using real math.
Further, the notion of "balance" is foolish. If you have too little soffit
vents, you're not getting maximum ventilation. If you have too much, they're
not doing any good.
Remember, you can't have too many or too much soffit vents.
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