R134a compressor on R12 box

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With a R134a condensing unit on a freezer designed for R12. It isn't working right, customer keeps saying the ice is melting. (ice merchandiser outside a store)
What comes to mind? Aside from Stormy jumping off a bridge. Replace the gas with a R12 replacement blend?
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
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On 7/20/2013 7:16 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Is there a TVX valve or is it a cap tube evaporator? o_O
TDD
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Captube. These aren't grown up enough to be trusted with a TXV.
I remember from some where, the new stuff needs more flow to get the same cooling.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
On 7/20/2013 7:16 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Is there a TVX valve or is it a cap tube evaporator? o_O
TDD
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On 7/20/2013 11:23 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

If it's a compressor rated for R134a, it should handle any R12 replacement. I use R416a in systems designed for R12 and it works better. ^_^
http://www.airgasrefrigerants.com/r-416a.php
TDD
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The condensing unit (contains a compressor) on the box is rated for 134a. The guy at the shop uses 416a, which he's had good results. I've got some 414b, which is supposed to be bisexual, replaces 12 or 134a. Might try that, next time I get called to the store. I suspect it's got better heat carrying ability. . Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . .
If it's a compressor rated for R134a, it should handle any R12 replacement. I use R416a in systems designed for R12 and it works better. ^_^
http://www.airgasrefrigerants.com/r-416a.php
TDD
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I've had some success with R414b, otherwise called Icor Hot Shot. supposed to replace 12 or 134a, and has higher heat capacity than 134a. . Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . .
On 7/21/2013 10:06 PM, Tony944 wrote:

for

with

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That's OK, I've never had a problem using mineral oil with R416a but I will definitely give R414 a look and perhaps a trial in a system. ^_^
TDD
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I don't know what they are getting on ebay right now, but I just sold off 6 cans of r12 for $ 20 on Craigs list. I had them left over from when I had a car that used it about 20 years ago.
I did not really understand why someone would only change out part of the system and have it mismatched. Why not change it all out and have the problem solved even if it costs a lot more. I just hate the patch work things to get by and the problems they cause.
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I'd have give you that, for the old cans. But, it's over now.
Someday when you're in the area, I'll show you the box, and why we didn't change it all out. . Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . .
I don't know what they are getting on ebay right now, but I just sold off 6 cans of r12 for $ 20 on Craigs list. I had them left over from when I had a car that used it about 20 years ago.
I did not really understand why someone would only change out part of the system and have it mismatched. Why not change it all out and have the problem solved even if it costs a lot more. I just hate the patch work things to get by and the problems they cause.
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On 7/22/2013 9:51 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

You should have taken it by a garage and I'll bet the owner would have given you a lot more money for it. I can guarantee you I would have given you as much as $20 per can. On a lot of of freezers, the evaporator is actually part of the case and there is no practical way to remove it. In something like a walk in freezer, the TVX can be changed out to match the new refrigerant and condensing unit being used. Quite often, the compressor can handle different refrigerants and if it is a semi-hermetic, it's very easy to drain the oil and replace it with an oil compatible with a different refrigerant. Been there, done that. ^_^
TDD
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In this case, it's a coldwall box, and the evaporator is not changable. Cap tube system, so there is no TXV to adjust. . Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . .
On a lot of of freezers, the evaporator is actually part of the case and there is no practical way to
remove it. In something like a walk in freezer, the TVX can be changed out to match the new refrigerant and condensing unit being used. Quite often, the compressor can handle different refrigerants and if it is a semi-hermetic, it's very easy to drain the oil and replace it with an oil compatible with a different refrigerant. Been there, done that. ^_^
TDD
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On 7/23/2013 6:27 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

If there are multiple leaks in one of those, I used to recommend scrapping it until the stop leaks for refrigerants came on the market. Now I use the stop leak before recommending the scrap yard. ^_^
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I've tried stopleak, once. It did not work well, but then I didn't give it a fair setup. A complicated story. The weather here turned colder, and so I expect to hear from the store next summer when it warms up again. In colder weather, everything can work fine.
. Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . .
On 7/23/2013 8:31 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

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You know, sometimes obvious answers really evade me. Thank you, have saved my day. Please provide an item number or URL for such a 14 ounce can. . Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . .
It only takes 9.6 ounces of R-12 and your fretting about what replacement to use??? Why don't you just buy a 14 ounce can of R-12 on eBay for about $25 and be done with it.........
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You know, sometimes obvious answers really evade me. Thank you, have saved my day. Please provide an item number or URL for such a 14 ounce can. . If you're only going to buy one can and you need it "now" it will cost you more than $25. The best way is to watch eBay and look for deals. Looks like thsese are mostly 12 oz. cans
Do you already have a can "tap"?
Here's but one auction with a Buy-It-Now kind of price: http://www.ebay.com/itm/IG-LO-Leak-Chek-Freon-12-R12-can-12-oz-Recharge-Auto-Air-Conditioner-/221255823646?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3383dff11e&vxp=mtr
Here's an auction: http://www.ebay.com/itm/R12-Freon-R-12-refrigerant-NOS-12oz-/300937205322?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item461141564a
http://www.ebay.com/itm/R-12-Freon-/251307291236?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a8314f264&vxp=mtr
Here's a 14 oz. can: http://www.ebay.com/itm/R-12-Freon-/251307291905?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a8314f501&vxp=mtr
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On 7/22/2013 4:36 PM, SRN wrote:

You have to consider the shipping and handling charge on any of those purchases. I've seen $100 shipping and handling charges on some items and you can't always be sure you're getting what you pay for. When I purchase something for a job where I have to guarantee my work, I must obtain my material from a reliable source, ie, a supply house. I can't go to a customer and say "I have to wait until it comes up for bid on eBay." A customer want's their equipment fixed NOW. ^_^
TDD
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Witchie poo hollers "Help me, I'm melting!"
http://www.film.com/wp-content/uploads/2000/10/29177768-29177771-large.jp g . Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . .
When I purchase something for a job where I have to guarantee my work, I must obtain my material from a reliable source, ie, a supply house. I can't go to a customer and say "I have to wait until it comes up for bid on eBay." A customer want's their equipment fixed NOW. ^_^
TDD
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Thanks, I'll try that for my next jug of juice. . Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . .
Oh heck, I used R414b when it first came out then I later started using R416a and never went back to R414b. o_O
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On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 20:16:19 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

Mabee fix the insulation on the ice box?? Is the door weatherstripping gone?
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On 7/21/2013 11:16 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

The evaporator is not designed for 134a. If it had an expansion valve instead of a capillary tube metering system, it could be adjusted to use the 134a or it could be replaced with an expansion valve specifically designed for low temp 134a operation. I personally would change refrigerants to an R12 replacement that will operate at lower pressures than 134a. Of course, I have cut out cap tubes and installed a TVX valve in its place so a system could operate with a different refrigerant. ^_^
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The old R12 cap tube systems operated with less refrigerant flow. The new stuff is far less efficient. Live and learn moment, I guess. I'm sure the store will call back. I'll go evacuate the sytem, and charge it up with new refrigerant. See if that keeps them happy. . Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . .
The evaporator is not designed for 134a. If it had an expansion valve instead of a capillary tube metering system, it could be adjusted to use the 134a or it could be replaced with an expansion valve specifically designed for low temp 134a operation. I personally would change refrigerants to an R12 replacement that will operate at lower pressures than 134a. Of course, I have cut out cap tubes and installed a TVX valve in its place so a system could operate with a different refrigerant. ^_^
TDD
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