Question about electrical code

[Art Todesco]

I am installing 2 duplex outlets on my porch. One will be inside the screened in part, and the other will be just outside the screened section. The outlets are going to be just above the floor decking (2x6). The decking itself is about 3' above the ground, which is covered with gravel. Do I need to run the UF cable in conduit under the decking, or can it be applied using the standard Romex staples? The run would be from the house to the outside edge of the decking, about 10' and over to the next outlet about 10' away. Thanks.

[gfretwell]

Under the deck, it is probably not "subject to physical damage". Just get it up on the sides of the joists and drill through the centers where it crosses them.

[Robert Green]

I am going to guess it's in the end dependent on where you live. I seem to recall on-line, steel-cage death match grudge fights over this subject, and it turned out to be dependent on AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction). I grew in NYC thinking electricity could only run in BX cabling. I remember seeing my first Romex wiring run thinking "that CAN'T be legal." Turns out NYC, Chicago and a few other places have the tightest code requirements in the nation, partly because of their bad experience with electrical fires and the closeness of houses to one another. It's probably an easy enough question for your local inspector to answer, although I can understand it in this economy if you're reluctant to ask and let the government know what you're up to.

One thing you can be sure of, Usenet is definitely NOT the Authority Having Jurisdiction in your town. (-:

-- Bobby G.

[RicodJour]

The disasters are only responsible for part of the "strictest" codes. Unions and other organized entities have had a lot to do with it as well.

R

[RBM]

It is very easy for him to ask his local authority, if he has one, wheather they use the Nec or have requirements above the Nec. If as in most locations in the U.S., the Nec is the local code, then this Usenet group and code experts like gfretwell are the right place to get the proper answers

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[Molly Brown]

From my experiences with inspectors here in Southern California you need to have it in EMT or rigid steel conduit and you may be able to get away with electrical pvc also but I wouldn=92t bet on it.

[Robert Green]

Unions and the Mafia exerting undue influence in NYC and Chicago? Next thing you'll be telling me is that LBJ stole his elections to the House and Senate! (-:

-- Bobby G.

[Art Todesco]

Ya, after living in the Chicago area suburbs all my life (until recently), I kind off know how the codes go. I don't know if it is that way today in Chi-town, not too many years ago, all electrical wiring had to be in rigid conduit, not thin wall. Plumbing could not be copper or PVC, including drains. I think they have finally eased up on that in recent years.

[Robert Green]

----- Original Message ----- From: "Art Todesco"

New York City was much the same. I can remember my poor dad cutting his thumb pretty deeply on the ragged end of a BX cable and howling like a banshee, blood spilling everywhere. Working with BX was a little like being a snake wrangler.

I also remember the look on my mother's face when we went upstairs to clean and bandage it. It was a look I'd see often as both Dad and I injured ourselves in various ways during car and home repair exercises. Ironically, the worst injury I sustained in the home was opening a pop-top cat food can and slicing the web of skin between the thumb and forefinger. The bathroom looked like a CSI crime scene and I ruined a nice cordless telephone by bleeding all over it calling neighbor to drive me to the hospital. When I showed the stitched up wound to our outfit's head librarian she stuck out her horribly scarred hand and began reciting: "Carrot slicing, hand through the window, fish deboning, etc."

Reminded me of Dirty Jobs where Mike Rowe points to his missing fingernail and asks his interview subject "Ever lost a fingernail?" and the guys holds up a hand with one finger that's much, much shorter than all the others. Touche!

-- Bobby G.

[Roy Quijano]

Art check the Local codes for accuracy, but anything outside on the porch needs to be GFCI. You can make the run with UF or Romex as long as none of it is exposed in a way that it can be tampered with or caught up and yanked from normal traffic. Roy Q.T. E.E. Technician

[Robert Green]

Both good points.

I'd get flunked by my inspector using Romex outside and exposed to the weather. Outside wiring is really, really dependent on where you live and the local codes and things like whether there's a pool nearby. Even though some may dispute it, Usenet is not the AHJ and many people (like me) post based on the knowledge of how things are done in places they have lived. That makes it very easy to give very passionate but wrong advice when answering questions. Look at these local codes:

A number of them are completely alien to me and to a lot of other posters I would imagine. But your Usenet buds aren't going to be the ones issuing an approval or a stop work order. Your local inspector is the one that will do that. The problem that I see far too often is that homeowners do things that seem right to them, but when it's time to sell and the home is inspected by someone well-versed in the local codes it's "tag, you're it!" and they end up remediating a problem that would have been far easier to just do right in the first place.

It's almost never a bad idea to discuss and learn more about the problem you're facing but it's important to remember who will be the one signing off on your work. No matter how "correct" your fellow Usenet posters are (and there are some with advanced degrees that know 10 times what a local inspector does), the AHJ is the last word on what you can do and how you should do it.

-- Bobby G.

[Roy Quijano]

I agree, the AHJ is the last word, but, You must have a gfi protected outlet outdoors. If the AHJ does not mention this tell him to take a hike;/

The fact that I have never been pulled nor none of my work stopped is because I think like one and use the best electrical sense and safety measures available to every job and justisdiction, sometimes common sense helps, but knowledge of updated devices, techniques and tricks of the trade are more useful when tackling electrical problems for others. Usenet has it's good points.. never advise anyone to do what they read here, but you have to measure and decide for yourself what will give you the maximum safety for your buck., and in some cases meet the AHJs approval which could be a silly weatherization item. Not to toot my horn but I don't cut corners trying to cut costs, the best advice is to get an electrician to do the work, then again there is no guarrantee he will not fail the inspectors approval and fudge up your budget.

Which ever route you take, think safety first, Good Luck.

Roy Q.T.