property with "no" water

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On 08/04/2014 8:01 AM, Ohioguy wrote:

That of course presumes an adequate rainfall which one there normally gets I presume. Excepting of course, in periods of drought when one needs the extra most is when there isn't much refill. How often that occurs where you are I don't know; out here it's often and we're in midst of another severe 3-yr and counting cycle at the moment...

All depends on how the well actually produces...only having more information and conducting actual tests will answer those questions. See more extension comments elsewhere in thread....
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On Sunday, August 3, 2014 11:22:23 AM UTC-4, Pete C. wrote:

theres no guarantee that any well will not run dry. so you cant just multiply minutes in a day times well production in gallon per hour.....
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Exactly. If they can average 1gpm 24/7 for the next x-years, they'll be fine and will have gotten a great bargain. If not, they will be in trouble.
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Unless there is city water, insurance companies look more to the tankers, etc, of the local FD than water on the property. I doubt even the ones that have good pressure have any hydrants or other readily available supply (with the possible exception of a pond)
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On Sunday, August 3, 2014 11:15:27 AM UTC-7, Kurt Ullman wrote:

Correct. I have heard of areas that require huge water tanks be installed just for fire protection though. Can't recall where I saw that.
It doesn't matter how good a well is, the pumps installed are not capable of pumping enough volume/pressure to do much good fighting fire. Now agricultural places running those huge sprinkler systems might be able to install a hydrant.
Our local volunteer fire departments all have tanker trucks as well as the assorted fire/rescue/ladder types and still rely in the local fertilizer plant tankers to assist.
Harry K
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Technically? Sure. You could also look into having water delivered.

Inspections and permits would be required in most locations, especially if a mortgage on the property is involved. But that brings up a potential issue you may not have considered. Getting a mortgage on such a property will be difficult to impossible.
If you are able to purchase for cash or finance privately, you also need to consider the salability of the property in the future, which is likely to be very difficult.
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On Sunday, August 3, 2014 3:33:19 PM UTC-4, Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:

I've bought and sold quite a few houses and I've never seen a bank come test a well. Among other things, it's a bank foreclosure and the bank holding it might be perfectly happy to give a mortgage on it to a credit worthy buyer. If not, plenty of foreclosed houses are sold and I doubt the mortgage company is coming out to carefully inspect the water situation. If the house can't get a CO, now that would be a real problem.
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Unless it is something very unusual, there is no way a normal home well can supply a fire truck with anywhere enough water. The well pipe will not handle hardly any of the volume of water the pumper is goung to use. They pump out 500 gallons in just a couple of minuits.
I doubt that the inusrance companies even care about water in the home well when it comes to fire protection.
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Ralph Mowery wrote:

If there isn't a fire hydrant within 200', or a suitably large pond that is consistently full, then rates will be a bit higher, but you will still get insurance generally. In the case of a pond it is common to pre-install a suction pipe into the middle of the pond at an appropriate depth with a standpipe and fitting at the edge of the pond for ready connection to the pumper truck.
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Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:

There are plenty of places were low yield wells are common and pretty much every house has one and a cistern system. They are rarely ever a problem as long as the wells are reliable.
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On 08/03/2014 5:42 PM, Pete C. wrote: ...

And there's the kicker -- in an area w/ generally almost an order of magnitude higher yield according to the OP, would one consider these wells likely to be reliable for the long haul?
I'd worry just on that grounds alone...
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dpb wrote:

I'd ten to not worry on those grounds. If the wells in the immediate vicinity are higher yield, I'd expect this low yield well is being fed from the same source, but via cracks in the rocks thus the lower yield. Certainly there should be hydrology reports for the area that can give more information.
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I was joking with my Dad - too bad they didn't drill down at an extreme angle - maybe they could have drilled over towards the neighbor to the south who has good water flow, and get some of THAT water.
I am really left wondering, however, why didn't they locate one or both of the wells farther from the house (and each other)? If the goal is to increase the chance of finding good water flow, and each well costs about $10,000 to complete, then I surely would have tried to locate them on different parts of the property, to maximize my chances. I am assuming that they drilled these two wells in 2012 because an old and shallow well failed, similar to the property just to the north that had the ~ 28' old farm well.
With 4 acres, the place has quite a bit of land to the east and south. They could have easily drilled for water 100-500 feet to the east, and anywhere up to about 120 feet to the south along that path as well. Instead, both wells were within about 40 feet of the house. Is it really that expensive to dig a 6 foot trench and lay poly pipe between the well and the house? I can't imagine it is that expensive compared to drilling the $10,000 well in the first place.
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On 08/04/2014 8:11 AM, Ohioguy wrote: ...

No, it's not and that's a goodly part of what doesn't make any sense at all from what's been recounted so far...it was simply stupid to drill a second hole (almost) on top of an already (essentially) dry hole.
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On 08/04/2014 8:57 AM, dpb wrote:

And that seems excessively expensive well cost here -- as noted elsewhere, we're expecting to drill new one probably this fall. Indications from driller were to expect about $5k for 400 ft or thereabouts.
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I am out in the country and there is not a hydrant within a mile or more. Also no pond close by either. I did not have any problem getting fire insurance. Not sure what my well puts out, but still with a 1 inch pipe it is not going to do much for a fire.
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Ohioguy wrote, on Sat, 02 Aug 2014 18:01:41 -0400:

Out here, in Northern California, where it won't rain for 9 or so months out of the year, we all have wells that are, on average four to five hundred feet deep - and the code is that we need 15,000 gallons of tank water, 10,000 of which is reserved for fire suppression.
One of my neighbors, who recently ran out of water, just drilled a new well of 520 feet, which is getting 18 gallons per minute, and which hit water at 300 feet initially.
You didn't mention where you live, but there is a chance you can just go deeper, but, it costs about $100 a foot to drill, so, you're looking at doubling the price of the property (although $64K is practically free as property prices go. Just the yearly tax alone on a typical Silicon Valley California property in a few years equals that much).
So, since the land is practically free, your main cost is the well, which is an improvement that will allow you to live there. I say spend the $50K or so to dig a 500-foot well, and you'll be perfectly happy.
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plus generally you cant just drill a existing well deeper, so the 500 foot existing well needs to be replaced, you cant just make it deeper.....
certinally before purchase its a good idea to check on homeowners insurance, avaiblity of mortage, get a home inspection and do you due dilligence..... check with local well drillers, the local municipality etc etc....
there was a fellow trying to sell a home around pittsburgh that had no dependable water, the well had collapsed, and the sewer line was higher than the home.
the local government refused to issue a certificate of occupancy. years later it was still in court.
around here many municipalties have begun requiring a certificiate of occupancy at home resale time.
this after some fires in homes in poor condition
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On Sunday, August 3, 2014 8:06:27 PM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:

Is it particularly hard to drill there because of rock or something? Around here, NJ, which ain't cheap, you can put in a well for less than half that, ie 100ft, is ~$3500. It's a half day's work. If it's not hard to drill, you're probably all just getting screwed by everything in silicon valley being expensive.
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Ralph Mowery wrote, on Sun, 03 Aug 2014 20:03:39 -0400:

Out here (Silicon Valley), *every* home that has a well, *must* have a wharf hydrant, for the fire department. There are no exceptions.
One must also reserve enough water in tanks for the fire department. The code is for 2/3 of the water (i.e., 10,000 gallons) to be reserved solely for fire, with the 1/3 (i.e., 5,000 gallons) for the home.
I posted all the pertinent Santa Clara County fire department documents in an associated thread already, so I won't back that up here (as it's already backed up there).
DATE: 27, June 2014 TITLE: How to truck 1,000 gallons of potable water to a residence
NOTE: My well is 400 feet deep but my neighbor just drilled a 520 foot well, which is producing 18 gallons a minute (which is far more than my 5 gallons a minute at 400 feet depth).
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