Edwin Pawlowski wrote: ...
That is not true...the family farm is now larger and more mechanized, but it is still just as much the family farm as ever, even if it is organized as an LLC or other form because of the prevailing tax law...
Shit - you're making $8/hr at Walmart?? Where do I sign up??????
On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 08:09:01 -0500, Don Carpenter scribbled this interesting note:
You can do better than that at In-n-Out Burger in California!:~)
-- John Willis (Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)
Can u give a counter example?
Care to explain how to buy a house in Hawaii?
How bout u? U think having play golf in Shenzhen makes u know more than others bout China?
countries,
Oh common, charles liu has been tooting this URL for weeks in soc.culture.china and he think now the home repair and building construction NGs need a new shot of CCP propaganda.
encouraging
Maybe charles liu wanna explain why Central bank of PRC governor said in Boao meeting that RMB has to reevaluate under international pressure?
And charles liu has been told many many times that the article "the fine art of China-bashing" is in October 2003 and he gotta find something new for his propaganda purpose in soc.culture.china.
authors,
Yes, you should keep up. Adam Smith, a British economist who has been quoted by American statesmen, and Justices of the Supreme Court of the United States, wrote, in his book Wealth of Nations, published in 1776, "If the free importation of foreign manufactures were permitted, several of the home manufactures would probably suffer, and some of them, perhaps, go to ruin altogether...". He noted that "two great engines for enriching the country, therefore, were restraints upon importation, and encouragements to exportation." Mr. Smith had studied under Professor Francis Hutcheson, who had written, in his book System of Moral Philosophy, in the chapter Of the Nature of Civil Laws and their Execution: "Foreign materials should be imported and even premiums given, when necessary, that all our own hands may be employed; and then, by exporting them again manufactured, we may obtain from abroad the price of our labours. Foreign manufactures and products ready for consumption should be made dear to the consumer by high duties, if we cannot altogether prohibit the consumption; ...".
things
Here's another article explaining why China's currency isn't undervalued, by Prof. Michael Connolly, U Maimi Chair of Economics:
"the real exchange rate has remained relatively stable since 1986, due largely to greater inflation in China that has offset yuan devaluation.
In fact, in 2004 it only appreciated 2%. The RMB has in fact slightly
depreciated in real terms since 1986."
So China's currency isn't the IMF-style "dig your own grave" free float (just ask Thailand and George Soros.) US monetary policy intervenes all the time to control the dollar. EU member currencies are pegged to the EU, and EU itself is heavily regulated by crawling peg.
If "free float" is so good, how come we ain't doing it? I needn't remind you our US$ was pegged to gold for hundreds of years, and the PRC is only around for 50 some years.
Give them a chance to do it on their own, for their own interest. That's what we'd do.
Then it begs the question why are we bashing China and scapegoating their currency for our problems. Because when it comes to our problem, it's to hell with everybody else - especially for our leaders of society to keep their wealth.
Have you seen what happened to the oil stocks since we invaded Iraq on false WMD accusation and dirty bombed Iraq from highest living standard in region back to the stone age? The stocks are going thru the roof:
China's
production.
equipment,
property,
Ralph, China amend their constitution quite a bit in the last 20 years. Just in case you haven't kept up with the times, China amended their real property rights law last year, and this year more changes are on the table. Here's an article titled "Will China's Property Rights Surpass U.S.'s?"
individual
Well sorta.... Actually they take their walmart rate salary send it all back home then when they get back that money goes 100 times as far as it would in this country and they actually live quite well.
I'm as American as Apple pie and as white newly grown cotton. I cant stand all the outsourcing as I'm in the tech industry but I do understand the raw economics behind why its done. Quality is a WHOLE differnet issue.
Here's an new twist on capitalism at its best. I couldnt believe it till I read it with my own eyes. Then I thought damn this guy is creative.
charles snipped-for-privacy@my-deja.com:
The Constitution of the PRC, dated 1982, is posted at:
If there is any doubt as to what the leaders of the PRC intend, they have provided an explanatory statement in Section II of the Constitution:
"Under the leadership of the Communist Party of China and the guidance of Marxism-Leninism and Mao Zedong Thought, the Chinese people of all nationalities will continue to adhere to the people's democratic dictatorship and follow the socialist road, persevere in reform and opening to the outside, steadily improve socialist institutions, develop socialist democracy, improve the socialist legal system and work hard and self-reliantly to modernize industry, agriculture, national defense and science and technology step by step to turn China into a socialist country with prosperity and power, democracy and culture."
After the public relations niceties are stripped away it is patently clear that they are a socialist dictatorship. They themselves say so.
They do not mean the same thing by the term rights that Americans do. They mean that people may have priveledges that are accorded by the state, and the document says repeatedly that the government determines the regulations and rules of everything in the state. Be certain of one thing - there is no universal protected liberty in the PRC.
.........
Stay away from the PRC and conduct business with free individuals in the free world nations.
Many business trade publications in the USA are expressing editorial content that the PRC is repeatedly violating the intellectual property and patents rights owned by western individuals and companies. In many attempts where western firms have sued the PRC agencies and enterprises and won the actions, the PRC has refused to pay the awarded damages. The PRC is conducting a vicious rip off scheme, and that policy was initiated in the earliest days of Marxism in the USSR. Communism is a parasitical type of social system.
Ralph Hertle
Since you've raised the issue, you ought to at least get it right. Especially in rural areas of China, the state owns the land, but families own their own homes. It's a lot like Hawaii in that way, and Hong Kong has always had government ownership of the land, while the homes, apartment blocks, office buildings, etc., built on that land were owned separately. Hong Kong's famous land "sales" are actually 99-year property leases.
For what it's worth, the Chinese constitution says:
Oooo, 1982, over 20 years old. Do you have something more current, like the article I posted that talked about China's real property rights amendments in 2004 and 2005?
A mere 50 some years ago blacks didn't have civil rights in America per our constitution. Also, didn't our own constitution, with public relations niceties stripped away, actually said only white men are equal (not even women), and God gave us the rights to steal land from the Native Americans? (recalling the atrocities we committed with constitutional authority, during Manifest Destiny period)
Oh sure, our constitution have evolved - well so have theirs.
guidance of
regulations
property and
People like these are a direct threat to everything the US stands for (on paper anyway). That giant sucking sound you hear is our country going down the drain......
And weren't we warned about this a decade ago...
The trade "deficit" is a misnomer. There is no deficit. The trade is equal dollars for equal product.
I'm sure the buggy whip manufacturers were bitching and complaining as well in the early 1900s, but new technologies and industries come along all the time.
Nonsense. Fortunes are being made as we speak, in people doing real estate business in the fast growing parts of China such as Shanghai. The land is owned by the government, but is "sold" on long-term lease. The individual buildings are owned by the leaseholder. This is similar to arrangements in many places in the world (including Hawaii). I was surprised during travel through Shandong and other wheat and grain-growing areas at the quality of the rural houses, which specifically are owned by the farmers. They were of a common design, similar to a Jim Walter basic house, but with a window wall all along the south side for wintertime heating. There is currently a property boom in Southern China building resorts and vacation homes for tourists, and I have friends who have bought their own vacation homes in subdivisions near Zhuhai in southern China, where we'll probably stay on our next visit to Asia.
As a matter of interest, even before reverting to China, all Hong Kong land ownership was retained by the (British) government, and land "sales" were actually 99 year leases. (There is only one privately-owned plot in Hong Kong, which dates back to its establishment.) All those skyscrapers in HK sit on leased land, but the buildings have private owners.
We owned an apartment in Macau for many years, and home ownership in Macau, Zhuhai, Hong Kong, Guangdong and other parts of China is unchanged.
Again, not true, and the Constitution does not say that. Even during the Cultural Revolution there was still family property and homes, and the government later paid compensation to those whose homes were taken over or destroyed during the Cultural Revolution.
Wrong again. If you look at the Constitution, beginning with Article 33 are a whole series of rights of the individual. You can't support your supposition by reference to the constitution.
You'd be better off trying to argue that the government wasn't living up to the constitutional requirements, and in fact the constitution is a document which seems to lag behind the actualities of Chinese life. In fact, what China has is a traditional Chinese-style central government, in which much of the actual authority is exercised not by the central government but within the individual provinces. Post HK-reversion, rather than Hong Kong starting to look like the rest of China, China is quickly starting to look like Hong Kong.
IMHO China's impact post-Mao and post-Cultural Revolution is very similar to what happened in Japan post WWII. We've survived this before, and as long as we understand how the world is evolving, we'll survive it again.
There are enough reasons to discuss China business without having to make up things that aren't true -- Regards
collectives),
property of
individual
arrangements in
there's a issue to resolve here. While people in this thread argue how in PRC u only "own" the building and the lot/land is owned by the government like Hawaii, the major diff here is
By law and constitution, both PRC, USA, Hawaii, grant u freedom of speech. How it is enforced is another story.
quality of
That's understandable in some sense -- UK only leased what we know as HK today by 99 years from China (represent by Qing dynasty). It cant "sell" these lots to private individual. This is why HK lot ownership are retained by the british gov.
How, and in what name? In other words, is it realy a "compensation"? By calling it compensation, it mean chinese communist party admit its mistake role in cultural revolution. Otherwise its nothing but a mouth-sealing fee. Consider why Japan today is providing low or zero interest loan to China but not calling it a WWII compensation.
During USA civil war, US gov confiscate general Lee's homestead in virginia (what we know today as Arlington national cemetary). Later after the war his family sue the government to get it back -- but instead receive payment cuz many civil war soldiers are already buried there and Lee's family cant use the land any more. Here u note one major diff. In USA, u can sue federal gov and state gov for their mistake and u have a chance to win. Talk bout that for PRC -- can people sue the center, provincial gov for their wrongs?
individual
Right. The issue here is how the law and constitution are enforced. both USA and PRC has law for support freedom of speech. U know what come out of their law. Ill bet Charles Liu is gonna mention patriot act again. Hehehe, then we can inspect how the law are applied.
I wonder how u say "China is quickly starting to look like Hong Kong". U can start with the recent anti-Japan protest in Shanghai. No chinese media mention the protest for days.
True. Welcome these people to the China NG then. ^_^
collectives),
property of
individual
arrangements in
You're wasting your time with these China bashers. They've formed their opinion already, even without any evidence. I can just hear people say "China's law and its application" this and that. Well, those who believe China's court always side with the government, they are wrong. China is just like America, there is eminent domain abuse, and just like US, China's courts have its own process.
Here are a few cases in China where victims of land use abuse sued and won:
quality of
individual
Improvement that charles liu dont call others 'jokers' when they dont agree with him. ^_^
wrong.
Residents suing city commision.
Come on, charles liu. U continue ur always trick. When others r talking bout sueing PRC central government and provincial gov. (these gov owns the land/lot), u wanna substitute in sues against village and city. That's filthy already in scChina. U wanna make urself notorious outside scChina?
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