pancake boxes + junction

[Mike]

I read in a NEC summary that a 6 cubic inch pancake box is "only good for the end of a 14/2 run", i.e., no outgoing 14/2 allowed. But I also read (somewhere, not specifically in the NEC) that the pancake box can be used as a junction box, as long as the fixture atached is domed and hence provides the additional cubic inchdes needed for the junction.

Is the second statement true? If so, do inspectors go along with it?

If I have 6 outdoor fixtures to install along the front of a building; can I just daisy chain a 14/2 to each location, and leave (2) 1 foot ends hanging out of a hole at each location, claiming a pancake box + domed fixture will be installed at each location (when the building exterior is finished)? I've seen plenty of new construction where the wiring for exterior lights is jsut left hanging, and I assume they get their rough wiring bought off prior to completing the exterior trim/ fixtures.

Mike

[terry]

Good question I went to replace an outdoor light fixture on my daughter's house and found no outlet (octagon etc.) box at all in the soffit! I was able to wangle some wood through the soffit hole and secure it to the house and a new octagon box to it to provide a sufficiently secure mounting for a new sensor/photo cell controlled 'double floodlight' fixture. I wasn't heaping blessings on the original electrician while I was up the ladder doing it though! Your approach sounds like a good one.

[John Grabowski]

Even if it was permitted I would not bring more than one cable into a pancake box. When you go to hang the fixtures the extra wires will get in the way of the fixture stud and bracket. It will be more trouble then it is worth. Talk to the owner/contractor/architect or whoever will be finishing the exterior and find out exactly how much depth you have to work with. It would be great if you could get a 4" x 1 1/2"octagonal box in for your two cables and the box comes out to be flush with the finished exterior. If not find a place to put a deep square junction box where it will be accessible and bring all of your cables there.

Generally speaking for a rough electrical inspection you would need to have your boxes mounted and grounded (If metal). I suppose you could claim to be installing surface pancake boxes upon completion of the exterior. It depends on the inspector.

[Steve Barker]

Install deep boxes with screws. Have the inspection. change the boxes and proceed.

[Mike]

This is a good answer and I have no problem installing 1.5" deep boxes; for some reason I had tought the 1/2" deep pancake box was the only solution, but I can fit a 1.5" deep box there just as easily. As long as the box can be mounted externally and against the sheeting I'm happy; I'll surround the boxes with a 1.5" thick piece of trim anyways so no issue with the depth. So now as long as my rough in can get by just having the exterior lamp wires hanging through a hole in the sheating I'll be good; I'd like to leave the final position/height of the box (+/- a few inches only) to when the trim/siding is being installed.

Mike

[Just Joshin]

imho:

You need 6 cubic inches for a dead ended 14/2. So the pancake boxe provides the min required. For a junction box to splice two 14/2's you need 10 cubic inches. I think your observation about the size of a pancake box makes it clear what the NEC would say about using it as a junction box.

FYI, check with your AHJ. They have the ultimate say.

tom @