outdoor motion detectors

[Jim Elbrecht]

I think I've got a problem with the motion detector that controls the lights on the garage. It has always been 'odd'- but now it just seems to *not* detect anything some days-- and on others seems to be tripping when nothing is there. [though I can't rule out critters tripping it]

It has been hanging there for 5-6 years & since day 1 it will let a car drive right up to the garage [straight at it] and not trip until the driver gets out of the car. It is supposedly a 180degree sensor, but 120 would be generous, and the edges seem to wave back and forth.

The way I have this set up, if it matters, is the sensor is mounted above the door and operates carriage lights on either side of the door.

The lights are switched-- but not 3-way.

So is there a *really* good detector that has a wide field of view, and will detect objects coming straight at it up to about 100 feet away? [minimum of 50']

Thanks Jim

[Ed Pawlowski]

The one I have now works better than any I've used over the past 15 years or so. Most are crappy. I don't know what brand it is off hand, but I bought it at Lowes and it has a "soft start" that extends the bulb life too. It has been up for a year and works well in bad weather, warm weather, etc.

I don't know about distance as I have it aimed to go on at about 25 feet or so, but it will go on from sensing the car and not the driver.

[Art Todesco]

I use an X10 motion detector without any floods. Then when it detects and sends and x10 signal, the program another box turns on the house floods on that side of the house, if it's nighttime and sounds a chime in the house. But, it will not detect a cold car or a car that is at the ambient air temperature. So, if a car is running a a pretty high speed and then pops in front of the detector, it probably sees no difference and ignores it. However, if the car is really warmed up and approaches slowly, allowing the hood, etc. to warm up, it detects as the sensor sees a difference between the air temperature and the car. Because I have a slow very steep road coming to my drive and then about

100' of drive, it usually detects. Although, at Halloween, I actually put one of these sensors next to the road to fire off a Halloween animation. It usually saw most cars, however, when I was testing with my own car, cold out of the garage, it occasionally missed. Another problem is that when the outside temperature gets to the upper 90s, it won't detect a person, again because there is little difference between the body and the ambient. The best way to reliably detect a vehicle coming onto your driveway is either a pressure sensor or metal mass detector, or a photo cell across the drive; the former probably won't detect critters, the latter will if they are tall enough. Sorry for rambling on.

[Robert Macy]

try your question on alt.security.alarms

I just asked this question there.

It appears two technologies stand out: optic/passive IR and microwave Honeywell makes a series of motion detectors for the security industry. These are installed by pro's, might meet your needs Honeywell 5800PIR-OD

However, for vehicles and distance it sounds more like the microwave would work better. Protech: Piramid XL2 microwave stereo doppler processing

If you get too cheap on this function you end up with a 'critter' detector or worse, a 'fair weather' detector.

[DerbyDad03]

re: "...but it will go on from sensing the car and not the driver."

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Isn't the driver *in* the car?

[Ed Pawlowski]

Yes, but the motion detector will not know you are in the car. The car is a big hunk of cold metal. Many of these sensors are actually sensing heat, not motion. You can pull up in the car and it will not go off. Only when the driver gets out of the car, it will sense body heat and turn the light on.

The one I have now will sense the car, even when I back into the driveway. It may be sensing the warm exhaust, but in any case, it works better than my old ones.

[Steve B]

wrote

Thanks for the very good information. I am going to be putting a "system" on my shop as soon as it is finished. I am going to splurge on this, as I have YET to see a motion detector that either works right, or lasts very long.

I keep seeing X10 come up, so take it that there are a lot of satisfied users out there. I just want to get a reliable system that will detect human bodies, and not animals in the night. I have seen one deer track on my property in six years. Mainly, I want an intruder alarm for inside a perimeter, and automatic lights on when it senses something.

I have five metal halides that came off a large hotel in Las Vegas. But they are 110 stepped up to 220, and take about ten minutes to get bright. Those will be on a timer for certain hours, and on a switch that I can regulate. Those puppies make it look like daytime.

Thanks to everyone who made contributions here on this thread. The day before this thread started, I was thinking of how to word a post about this, but this has answered all my questions.

Except one. Is X10 the way to go for the money, or is there better that won't cost an arm and a leg?

Steve

[missingchild]

I don't know that an X-10 motion detector light is any better than any othe= r but you can buy a motion detector without the light and program it to tri= p a light. That way you can put the motion detector at ground level pointin= g across the driveway instead of pointing down the driveway.

Also, maybe a silly question, but have you tried cleaning it? After a few y= ears it might just be really dirty.

[Robert Macy]

For 'bright' light see if you can get those xenon arc thingies. They used to be made by some tube company, Eimac?, in northern california. I met the inventor, interesting engineer. You might be able to get them at surplus outlets, too. Being an arc they fire then stabilized at around 20V 10A [from memory]

The light source is constructed of quartz holding two electrodes pointing at/facing each other with the resulting arc centered in a parabolic reflector to throw the light forward, metal rings at each end of the cylinder provide contact to each electrode.. I think they were designed to be robust light sources unaffected by vibration to be mounted on military vehicles like tanks. I heard a colleague mounted four along the top rack on his 4WD, when he fired them up he said he illuminated objects more than mile away. I can attest to their brightness. I saw one of those old 16mm video projectors using one as its light source running in bright office space, the tube lit the 15 foot screen beautifully, even against the bright office light background

Anway, they are small, pretty fast coming on, super bright, and fairly energy efficient.

I think they are also used in some medical product, endoscopy-like lighting, where they provide bright, correct color for examinations. Can't remember the company's name, though.

[HeyBub]

I don't have any insight as to the motion detectors, but what happens when a thief pulls in your driveway and the garage door opens?

Aside from the thief telling his partner "Score!"

[Steve B]

"HeyBub" wrote

You slap your wife and scold her for opening the garage for strangers?

What do I win?

Steve

[Jim Elbrecht]

Aside from the facts that;

1. my garage door is generally open anyway,
2. the motion detector is just to operate lights,

3.by the time the thief found anything of value in there either me, or my neighbor would be 'talking to him' . . .

I would guess, that if he saw the door open, he might suspect that someone just opened it, or someone is *trying* to get him to enter the trap.

Jim

[Art Todesco]

but you can buy a motion detector without the light and program it to trip a light. That way you can put the motion detector at ground level pointing across the driveway instead of pointing down the driveway.

years it might just be really dirty. I have 2 and have to chime in that they are not really that great. Mine triggers on wind coming down the side of the mountain. I plan on moving it to a different location to see if that might help. BTW, it also triggers on critters, but that's ok as I want to know when a bear, that usually stays away from house, comes into the area. I have already seen one a few months ago. I still think the best solution might be an IR beam across the driveway. Most critters would be under the beam.

[Jim Elbrecht]

-snip-

Thanks all for some informative stuff. Darn thing started working again. [maybe it *was* just dirty? I didn't intentionally clean it, but I took it off and tightened wire nuts all around-- everything seemed tight-- but I must of hit something.]

So now I've got some time to put it off in hopes that the low end crap gets 'good enough' before I feel the need to replace again.

Jim

[DerbyDad03]

I don't want to turn you off to X-10. It sounds like it works for many, many people and it just may work for you.

I hear about people automating their whole house with X-10, using macros and other "high tech" X-10 configurations.

There are forums dedicated to X-10 and I would suggest you browse through some of them to get a feel for the technology and perhaps even post your requirements.

You'll get part numbers for the various components and I'm sure you'll get advice related to the Do's and Dont's (capabilities and limitations) of the technology.

As I said earlier, for the price of the components, it's well worth it if you can get it working for you.