OT, way OT, Dow Jones, S&P???

OT, way OT
Why do they give the Dow Jones, the S&P, and sometimes the NASDAQ all the time on the news? Who wants to hear it?.
ISTM if one is an investor, in the market for the long hall, keeping your stocks long enough to make gains long term, it doesn't matter what stocks do on one day. They could report it every week or month and that would be plenty.
And if you're a speculator, what does it matter what an average of many stocks has done? It's what the stock you might buy or sell does that matters to you. So you still have to check on them.
And yet even mid-morning, -day, and -afternoon 6 minute newscasts at the top of the hour give partial days' results and number of shares traded. Why do people care?
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There aren't enough wild fires and hurricanes for the newscasters to act all breathless about. Just under 49% of us own stock either directly or indirectly. From CNN a couple years ago: http://alturl.com/bnen4
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On Wednesday, August 26, 2015 at 8:28:46 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:

A better argument than "who cares" would be that it would seem anyone who does care almost certainly has a smart phone where you can see not only the indices, but also your actual stocks. Giving the updates made more sense decades ago, when there was no easy way for most people to have any idea of what the markets were doing. Today, it's mostly just a holdover thing on routine days. On days where the market is making a big move, then it's certainly news worthy.
As a side note, for some what the indexes are doing is all that matters. You can invest in and trade the actual indexes too.
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In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 27 Aug 2015 06:07:54 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

Not quite true. The stock prices were printed in the paper every day. Even my small town (50,000) paper printed in the 50's, iirc, the local stocks and some big national ones, and Indianapolis in the 60's printed almost all of them. More than enough for an "investor". and as to speculation, the vast majority of those who you might be bidding against were in the same situation.
And if you were a serious spectulator, even as far back as the 30's I think, you could go to a stock broker and sit in the room with the tickertape and read the latest prices as they came over the wire. Before the web, and probably still, at some brokers there was a "tickertape" running in lights in a 14" high array across the wall. in that room.

I wonder if they'll get rid of it in my lifetime. I want to hear more about who Laura is cheating on her husband with.

Well that's a point
Dean, my browser is stuck but I'll read your url soon.
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On Thursday, August 27, 2015 at 12:04:02 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:

Almost all of what? You first say "local stocks and some big national ones", then say almost all of them. From my experience how much stock info a paper had varied from just the most widely held ones to almost all of them, with the latter being the WSJ. And by no idea of what the markets were doing, in the context of what you're bringing up, I clearly meant that absent an update on the radio, there was no easy way for most people to have any idea of what the markets were doing during the day,

Maybe for you, others would disagree. An investor might have $10K in cash, trying to decide what to do with it, looking to find the right opportunity. Hearing that the DOW was down 1,000 points the other day, that investor could act and use that opportunity and buy during the panic. Or another investor might need to sell some stock soon and hearing that market is very strong on a particular day, they could use that info to decide to check into what the stock is doing and then sell it.

As a speculator, do you want to be in just the same position as the vast majority?

That depends on what you mean by "serious speculator". The vast majority of speculators didn't have a stock ticker service. Even as technology made it widely available in the 80s, the cost was prohibitive for most speculators. And the majority of speculators had jobs other than speculating as their main source of income. You also seem to be confusing very short term speculating with speculating. Many speculators have a longer term perspective, holding positions for days, weeks, months. It's only in the last two decades that the tools and systems have been put in place that allows very short term day trading by the masses. To do that kind of speculation, you need a lot more than just a ticker tape.
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On Thursday, August 27, 2015 at 9:08:02 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:

Well, to be more precise, you can invest in ETF's, Mutual Funds and other i nstruments that mimic various indexes, but you can not invest in an actual index.
An index is nothing more than a mathematical representation of the securiti es that make up a certain segment or segments of the market. Index mutual f unds, Index ETF's, etc. attempt to mimic the returns of a particular index by holding the same securities, in the same percentage, as are listed in th e index they are trying to mimic.
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On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 11:14:20 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:

l index.

funds, Index ETF's, etc. attempt to mimic the returns of a particular inde x by holding the same securities, in the same percentage, as are listed in the index they are trying to mimic.
I agree, except the part about "attempt" to mimic. They do mimic it very c losely because as you point out the fund owns the stocks that make up the index. The SPDR 500 holds all the stocks that are in the SP500, for exampl e. The point here was the claim was made that the radio information of what the market indices were doing didn't reflect the actual performance for any investors because they had individual stocks or mutual funds, etc, so their performance was not going to be the same as the indexes. If you hold the SPDR for the DOW, whatever the DOW is doing that is reported on the radio is extremely close to what you're holding. It's not the case for most investors though, which is why I said it was a side note.
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On Saturday, August 29, 2015 at 9:26:57 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:

ual index.

al funds, Index ETF's, etc. attempt to mimic the returns of a particular in dex by holding the same securities, in the same percentage, as are listed i n the index they are trying to mimic.

I guess I should not have worded my response the way I did. Not all index f unds or ETFs hold the exact securities of the index they represent. I was trying to keep it simple by merely pointing out that your claim that an inv estor can "invest in an *actual* index" was not correct.
Per the SEC website for Index Funds:
Index Funds An "index fund" describes a type of mutual fund or unit investment trust (U IT) whose investment objective typically is to achieve approximately the sa me return as a particular market index, such as the S&P 500 Composite Stock Price Index, the Russell 2000 Index or the Wilshire 5000 Total Market Inde x. An index fund will attempt to achieve its investment objective primarily by investing in the securities (stocks or bonds) of companies that are inc luded in a selected index. Some index funds may also use derivatives (such as options or futures) to help achieve their investment objective. Some ind ex funds invest in all of the companies included in an index; other index f unds invest in a representative sample of the companies included in an inde x."
In other words, if you look beyond the common place DOW and S&P index funds , things get a bit more complicated.
So, my point is two-fold: not only can you not invest directly in an actual index (which I know you know) but in addition, not all index funds hold al l of the securities that make up that index, thus my use of the word "mimic ".

True.

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On Saturday, August 29, 2015 at 9:54:47 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:

ctual index.

tual funds, Index ETF's, etc. attempt to mimic the returns of a particular index by holding the same securities, in the same percentage, as are listed in the index they are trying to mimic.

he

s trying to keep it simple by merely pointing out that your claim that an i nvestor can "invest in an *actual* index" was not correct.

And I was trying to keep it simple, by not going into an arcane discussion into the negligible differences in buying the tracking stocks versus the indexes that are quoted on the radio. Micky was commenting on the fact the actual indexes, as quoted on the radio, are largely irrelevant because you can only invest in stocks not indexes. I didn't see the need to get into a complex discussion of how the actual investment vehicles work. The simple fact is, that for the purposes of an investor or typical speculator that would be listening to the radio, if you buy the SPDR SP500 or DOW, they so closely match the actual index that how exactly it's done doesn't matter. It is like owning the index. If the radio says the SP500 is up 20 points, then your SPDR500 is up almost exactly the same amount and the radio information is spot on to what you're invested in.

same return as a particular market index, such as the S&P 500 Composite Sto ck Price Index, the Russell 2000 Index or the Wilshire 5000 Total Market In dex.
Did you ever hear the Russell 2000 or Wishire Index quoted on the radio? You've broadened this way beyond the indices quoted on the radio.
An index fund will attempt to achieve its investment objective primarily b y investing in the securities (stocks or bonds) of companies that are inclu ded in a selected index. Some index funds may also use derivatives (such as options or futures) to help achieve their investment objective. Some index funds invest in all of the companies included in an index; other index fun ds invest in a representative sample of the companies included in an index. "

all of the securities that make up that index, thus my use of the word "mim ic".

Use any words you like, but I'd say "attempt to mimic" is a mischaracteriza tion. The DOW, SP500 which are the indexes quoted on the radio that have tracking stocks, they don't just "attempt to mimic", they track them so closely that for Micky's investors it doesn't matter. Unless you want to get into a nit over a hundredth of a percent or similar.

Well, that was the whole point.
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My fambly has been in the radio bidness for 80 years and the story is that local news is pretty much "for profit" now, which means keep the costs low and maximize profit. Nothing wrong with that, but with the news, lowest cost is using the 'wire services' for all except local news. For local news, they have the routines sources - police, fire, schools, city hall, sports, etc. --- which all have public info offices. Listen to one newscast and record another station sometime. The stories will be in almost identical order and many times are word-for-word.
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In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 27 Aug 2015 10:21:28 -0700, "Snuffy \"Hub

Maybe you could ask your fambly specifically about the stock index reporting. Because they've been reporting that diligently all my life, iirc, even before "for profit" was the big driving force. Would people complain if they dropped it? Who would?
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costs low and maximize profit. Nothing wrong with that, but with the news, lowest cost is using the 'wire services' for all except local news. For local news, they have the routines sources - police, fire, schools, city hall, sports, etc. --- which all have public info offices. Listen to one newscast and record another station sometime. The stories will be in almost identical order and many times are word-for-word.

It's just one more automatic feed news. Station owners love news they only have to copy.
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In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 28 Aug 2015 12:47:02 -0700, "Snuffy \"Hub

your family.
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