So you have a database of RLC & speed cameras so that..what? You'll know which lights you can run and when you can drive faster than the 5
- 10 MPH usually allowed over the speed limit?
OK, let's be reasonable and leave out the speeding issue (I'm certainly no goody-2-shoes in that regard) by why would you need a database of Red light Cameras? Do you really plan to run the one's that aren't monitored?
How do you feel about those who run them obliviously?
Right. That's why you have so many tickets and motor around in mechanically unsound shitboxes.
You don't know that. You have no method to have learned it.
Armey's "report" was released in 2001 (it's dated wrt RLCs).
He himself seems to have abandoned it: "(all documents available at http:
It alleges that the problem of red light running would disappear if only signals were timed properly =97 in particular, if yellow signals were lengthened.
The report suggests that a conspiracy of traffic engineers has resolved to time signals incorrectly. Such allegations shouldn=92t be taken seriously because the Majority Leader=92s office isn=92t staffed with experts to make such engineering judgments. What should be heeded are the extensive findings of scientific studies by transportation professionals.
Yellow light signal timing is complex: There is no universal definition or agreement among traffic engineers concerning a =93properly timed signal=94 (a phrase that=92s nevertheless used throughout the report).
The IIHS represents and is funded by those who pay crash damages, insurance companies. Skin in the game suggests a reputable source:
- gpsman
So I slow down below the posted speed limit when approaching those intersections, so I don't get caught in the "dilemma zone" where I have a choice between panic stopping and "running" the red light.
nate
I don't have the same animosity toward them, but do think they should be encouraged to leave the warmth and serenity of their colons and pay attention to what the hell they're doing. But studies have shown that they are by far the minority of RL violators, in that violations drop off sharply with time after the light turns red, the majority being either those caught by a short yellow or those that "push it..." (those being people who *should* be caught by the cameras, but let's set the timing correctly first.)
Unsupported assertion from an unsupportable douchebag.
Does the truth really change over time?
Probably because he's no longer Speaker of the House.
Hmm. Is the IIHS staffed by traffic engineers now? Or insurance industry shills?
It doesn't "allege" it, it states it. That conclusion is supported by the Virginia studies, which as far as I'm aware are the best done to date on the subject. You will note that the Virginia legislature, as a result of those studies, went so far as to write compliance with ITE guidelines into the code as a prerequisite for installing a RLC, and that should be model legislation for the rest of the country.
You mean like the ITE?
Bullshit. The ITE has published guidelines that are widely accepted (by real traffic engineers that is) and you'd have to look very hard to find a case where setting a yellow interval shorter than that recommended by the guidelines would be warranted or desirable. If nothing else, a consistent timing of yellow lights on similar roads with similar travel speeds would provide a consistent experience and condition motorists as to when they should stop and when they should proceed. Which should really be the goal, NOT artificially generating "violations" to raise revenue.
The IIHS has as much credibility as you do. It's a shill organization whose main goal is to increase revenue for insurance companies. The only thing that they do that is worth a shit is crash testing, and that is the only thing that they do that an intelligent person pays any attention to whatsoever.
I still haven't forgiven them for the "geico guns" or supporting the double nickel and neither should you.
I'm gonna laugh my ass off when you get your RLC ticket and suddenly change your tune. But of course you won't admit to it, lying weasel that you are.
Let's do a little gedankenexperiment, shall we? (assuming that you can actually think, that is.) Let's say you're traveling on a 55 MPH road and are traveling at the posted limit. You approach an at-grade intersection. The light turns yellow, then two seconds later turns red as you proceed on through. You get a ticket. Is that fair? Did you deserve the ticket? Why or why not?
nate
But if there isn't a camera you don't give a shit.
You really -are- interested in safety! -----
- gpsman
If there isn't a camera, barring the presence of slower traffic or inclement weather, there's no compelling reason to slow below the posted, unless there's a yellow or red light showing.
You do know what a dilemma zone is, and why it's undesirable for it to exist in the first place, don't you?
Oh, wait, never mind.
nate
When I lived in Philadelphia, traffic court was a must.
First time I want, there was maybe 150 cases, all seated in the courtroom. Bailiff comes in, for the "all rise" and announces the judge. Judge says to everyone, "how do you plead?" Everyone said, "not Guilty. One smack of the gavel and all were dismissed.
Second time I went, my name was called. I walked up to the judge and the court stenographer says to the judge, "with a name like that, I doubt he is guilty". Judge says "dismissed". I turned and left. I'll never know for sure, but I think a guy I went to school with worked in that court.
I also suspect some of these RLCs are installed due the RLC comapanies subsidizing the bill for new intersection construction. My last town of residence had at least 3 very dangerous intersections with stop signs, only. Suddenly there was new construction and new LED stop light signals. No surprise they where heavily monitored, with what appeared to be at least 4 video cameras, one for for every lane. Safe, but beware.
nb
Not to mention they're dumber'n a bag o' hammers:
"After news spread that paying a red light camera tickets in Los Angeles County, California is optional, the average number of people paying citations declined by nearly a third."
nb
Dirty deals, done dirt cheap . . . Ikea paid for upgrades to the intersection of US 1 and the Beltway in MD. Their design includes a ramp into Ikea that occurs just before the ramp to Baltimore. Sit in the parking lot on any one day and you'll see a boatload of people entering the Ikea lot and then winding their way out of it when they realize that they didn't get on the ramp to Baltimore, but went to Ikea instead.
I've looked at the design from Google Earth and it seems like a quite deliberate effort to shepherd people into their store who really wanted to go north to Baltimore. All it would take is a simple "Ikea ONLY exit" sign but none has ever appeared that I've seen (of course, they probably are putting one up today just to make a liar out of me!)
Looking at all the Gatso cameras destroyed in England it's clear to me that these cameras are hi-tech versions of the Liberty County, GA sheriffs that sit right beyond the tree-covered speed limit sign that drops the speed limit precipitously for no other reason, apparently, than to catch speeders and make money. Want to fight the ticket? C'mon back down to Georgia in a few months for trial - a proposition that's so costly for travelers that people just pay the tickets and move on, even though the sign is not legible from the roadway.
When I got "hooked" many years ago, they took cash on the spot. Flash too much cash and you're taken into custody as a drug dealer. Maybe the cameras are an improvement. At least they can't shake you down for a bribe or try to confiscate your vacation money. Yet.
-- Bobby G.
It's not new and it's not over. Smyrna TN, 1969. Not even one-horse! Listed on one travel map as one of the top five speed traps in America. Cut to the stretch between Salida and Buena Vista, CO, 2011. I've seen as many as 8 state troopers and local sheriff's cars on that stretch (about 15 mi) and watched, horrified, as one county mounty cut me off to get behind another vehicle, which has jes very slowly passed me on a dbl lane, going 56 mph in a 55 mph zone. I was doint 54! Good ol' raise-revenue speed traps are far from dead, even in this day and age.
nb
yep, different year, different place but stuff like that happens all the time. A few years back it was New Rome, OH. Some real horror stories out of that place... Back in the day I would occasionally drive through Linndale, at least they didn't screw with you there, but you absolutely had to be on your best behavior there otherwise you'd get busted. I never got a ticket there - it's notorious - but I did get one very near by for a speed that I don't recall today but my speedometer was dead on the 55 mark because I knew the reputation of the area and had spotted the cruiser from far away... and it was a clear summer night with no other traffic on the road. Even got the safety lecture even though Officer Friendly must have kicked it up to
90+ to "catch" me and the car I was driving had all new suspension and tires and handled better than it did when it left the factory. Hah.Long story short, I don't consider the police my friends, at least not the traffic ones. When I see far more serious violations pass without notice (esp. no headlights in rain/snow/after dark, lack of signal use, unsafe lane changes, etc.) but very few people in this country haven't ever received a speeding ticket, what can you think the agenda is?
nate
How many millions or billions of years has the earth existed? Sorry but the earth has survived and thrived for a very long time. Man, as stupid as he is, isn't going to destroy the planet or even its environment. We may very well make parts of the planet very uncomfortable for ourselves but that is about the limit of it. Long before we could destroy it a mass die off of the human population will occur either by war, famine, or disease. We are without a doubt our own worst enemy but this beautiful planet will survive despite our best efforts.
That was before they discovered how much they could make. I remember reading a few years back that tickets accounted for over $800 million of Phillys yearly income.
A great number of nitwits will believe anything, no matter how preposterous, and post it to Usenet:
The number of traffic tickets written by the Philadelphia Police Department dipped 17 percent from 2008 to 2009 and then an additional
21 percent from 2009 to 2010.And tickets are down 12 percent in the first five months of this year, compared with the first five months of 2010.
That means $1.6 million in lost revenue from 2009 to today, according to Traffic Court figures.
- gpsman
I beat a speeding ticket, once, on technical mistakes on the citation. Before he grudgingly dismissed the case, the judge looked at me and said, "I know yer guilty of semething." This after the usual opening spiel about all defendents being innocent till proven guilty. While I was technically guilty of speeding, this was due to the fact the zone I was cited in, the speed limit had been reduced to 25mph after being
45mph for 30 yrs and I hadn't been down that road in years.Old news. I recall reading an article in the old Berkeley Barb ('70) about a UB grad's term paper on his two yr study of the Berkeley PD. One of the conclusions was the police are only 30% effective at solving crime, but 80% effective at generating revenue from traffic fines. I'd say things haven't changed much.
nb
So what were the "technical mistakes on the citation" that resulted in a dismissal?
... and they hadn't put up the new speed limit signs. -----
- gpsman
Possible.
I found myself on a road last night with no evident speed limit signs, and my GPS didn't know what the speed limit was, either. If there was a speed limit sign, it was before the intersection that I turned from. This was neither a residential street nor a deserted country road, either - I was on my way to the UPS depot after work to pick up a package.
nate
True, but not always practical or accurate. I travel a road to work every day for years. The speed varies 5 mph between two towns. Damned if I can see any difference in the type of road or buildings. I also traveled that road for a few years before I noticed the sign with the lower limit.
If you are from out of state, the chances of knowing the particulars of the state you are in are slim. Most are similar though, you'll never see a secondary road at 70 mph.
Most states also have some regulation on posting too.
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