OT Property taxes

[Stormin Mormon]

When I read "biggest mistake was trusting the Dems in the Congress", I was remembering Rush Limbaugh commenting on the Reagan budget. The Dems got tax increase now, in promise of reduced spending later.

- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus .

. .

[philo]

Ok folks you wont the argument, I'm going back to home repair

[Stormin Mormon]

Failed to use Jedi powers to run the country?

- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus .

. .

[philo]

Although I am now all argued out and am going back to home repair questions...to be fair...if someone I disagree with does say something right...I'll give them credit

here is a side of Bush that I can agree with (much to my surprise)

[RobertMacy]

That begs the question, "Go to college? Why bother?" followed by the realization in these times that it is far 'easier' to make money by applying 'relative ethics' to what is supplied. Or better yet, come up with a great iPod App and retire.

Let's see...McDonald's employees got a raise above minimum wages, then went on strike for what? $15/hr? I've seen Ads for 'workers wanted' at UP TO $15/hr! But those positions REQUIRE high tech backgrounds and/or college degrees. Something seems badly distorted here.

Other questions:

1. Is it true that Japan now owns more of US debt than China? And, what is the significance of that?
2. Is US beef containing all those hormones still NOT allowed as imports into MANY countries in spite of many instances of US govt using trade agreements 'forcing' them to accept that meat, and now all grain products, anything with potential GMO in it, are included in that list and many countries will NOT allow grain imports? Yet, the FDA says both hormone meeats and GMO's are ok for U.S. citizens to eat. Any significance there?

[Kurt Ullman]

Actually it appears as though most of the problem was that GW DID use his Jedi mind powers. Otherwise how do you explain the large numbers of Democrats that say they were against the war despite voting for okaying it AND paying for it?

[Kurt Ullman]

If true, Japan got over its world domination thing years ago and are less likely to screw with us at some important juncture.

Yeah, it shows how politicians (who call for deference to the science in things like global warming) don't necessarily follow their own dictates when the know-nothings are in full bellow and choosing what science they want to believe.

The Journal of Animal Science recently looked at over 100 billion animals over a 29 year period from 1996 (100% non GMO) and after intro when GMO fed animals jumped to something like 90%. It included information from both pre- and post-mortem studies. (FWIW, the researchers were from UC-Davis not exactly a hot bed of pro-business thought. They found no unusual trends, consistent with a long line of other animal feeding studies that were actually peer-reviewed. A rather lengthy list of animal studies is available here. ?

And before we break out the EU and its statements, those are mostly political and even the EU itself notes: "The main conclusion to be drawn from the efforts of more than 130 research projects, covering a period of more than 25 years of research, and involving more than 500 independent research groups, is that that biotechnology, and in particular, GMOs, are no more risky than e.g. conventional plant breeding technologies." Directorate-General for Research and Innovation Biotechnologies, Agriculture, Food. ?

Add to that the WHO: "GM foods currently available on the international market have passed safety assessments and are not likely to present risks for human health. In addition, no effects on human health have been shown as a result of the consumption of such foods by the general population in the countries where they have been approved." ? The NAtional Academy of Sciences in the US and Royal Society of Medicine has chimed the same way.

[trader_4]

Bingo. Nice find Stormin. Sure, it's possible that Philo's taxes still went up anyway. I'm sure he voted for every lib he could and maybe his local govt is chock full of them and they are spending and raising taxes locally. But he comes in here and lies about what Walker promised, what Walker has done, and tries to make it look like Walker directly controls his property tax bill.

[trader_4]

I don't know about the WI constitution, but the founders did make the mistake of mentioning education in the NJ constitution. It says something along the lines of it's the state's responsibility to provide a thorough education. Back in the 80s folks in poor school districts like Camden sued, claiming that because their school districts didn't have the property taxes to fund schools as well as affluent districts, it was unconstitutional and causing their kids to be dumb as bricks. The NJ Supreme Court agreed and basically took over the schools. They appointed a special commission that reports to the court and implemented a system whereby the state has to give extra funding to those poorer school districts. The court is still running this lib scheme, three decades later. Those poor school districts now get *more* revenue per student than the schools here where I live, more revenue than the average school district and even more revenue per student than the most affluent towns in NJ. And the kids are still dumb as bricks. It's one of the best examples of an unconstitutional power grab by a lib court I've ever seen.

[Ed Pawlowski]

College is a necessity today. You can go study for years and have a degree in 4th century Greek sculpture so you can get a job flipping burgers. Those student loans will be paid for by the time you retire.

Or go to trade school and get a job as an auto tech and make $75,000 a year.

My unscientific observation is more kids are going to college than ever before. While that is generally a good thing, they are too often taking courses to a dead end. Just because you want to study Greek sculpture does not mean you are going to find a good job. Engineering takes a bit more work, but you can make a good living.

[philo]

Yep

If I were starting all over I'd just go to the local trade school and get a relatively inexpensive two year degree.

Even though I was a college graduate when I got my job...all I really needed was basic electronics. Most of what I learned was learned on the job.

There is still of course a great need for college education.

For example: I would not want to go to a doctor who only had 2 years of school.

[ChairMan]

Answering questions on your beliefs is arguing? I believe you have answered more than you think by avoiding these simple questions

[Tekkie®]

sms posted for all of us...

How can it when there is no unbiased media to report the facts rather than ignore or express their opinion.

[RobertMacy]

Great facts! Hopefully such extensive testing will catch any problem. However, one MUST keep in mind that there is NO instrumentation capable of matching olfactory capabilities, etc etc

I only became alerted to the presence of GMO's [not through our medai at all] after Ms. Macy started complaining about the taste of what she called, Chinese gluten, in some breads, flour, and biscuits. Her noticing 'contamination' started a while ago and has spread to more and more products. She can tell blind tests of non-GMO and GMO products. She found the taste so repugnant as to spit out the food, AND require me to return the Product to the market for credit.

I'm looking for a civilized manner to describe her taste sensation when she first started hitting upon 'something' starting to appear in our products. The closest I can get to describing what she tastes is imagine you're starting to eat a delicious chocolate bikkie, or piece of bread, and suddenly the taste changes to include another taste, as though someone has had a very bad bowel movement and just opened the bathroom door WITHOUT running the fan, or spraying. Her description is a bit more succinct, but you get the sensation of flavour. VERY repulsive!

We have since switched to organic products and have not experienced the weird GMO flavour again.

Regarding meat, we eat organic/ranch meat only. We found we could not digest the readily available meats and for years went without eating any, until started experimenting with organic/range meats. We found the meat readily digests and does not cause any 'after effects' like we used to experience.

It's just I hope the FDA does NOT remove requirement to appropriately 'label' products. I understand there is a lot of pressure to remove such labeling requirements.

[Dan Espen]

The Fido explosives detector is created by ICx Technologies, Inc. and is based on a proprietary technology developed by MIT called amplifying fluorescent polymer (AFP). The AFP technology was invented by 2007 Lemelson-MIT Prize winner Professor Timothy Swager[1] and adapted for use in the Fido explosives detector to detect trace levels of explosive materials. The product is so named because its level of detection is comparable to highly trained explosives detection dogs, the gold standard in explosives detection technology.

I wasn't aware GMO foods are labeled. Where do you find such food?

I knew a guy who's wife would not allow a car she was in to be driven over a bridge.

I've heard of another wife that refuses to drive to gas stations.

[RobertMacy]

I stand 'corrected', but we don't eat the explosives anyway. Well sometimes I think they're in the mushrooms I try to microwave.

[Robert Green]

That's nothing. When you strip away the myths, what remains tells a different story that some would have us believe.

Reagan was not the man conservatives claim he was. This image of Reagan as a conservative superhero is myth, created to unite the various factions of the right behind a common leader. In reality, Reagan was no conservative ideologue or flawless commander-in-chief. Reagan regularly strayed from conservative dogma ? he raised taxes eleven times as president while tripling the deficit ? and he often ended up on the wrong side of history, like when he vetoed an Anti-Apartheid bill.

1. Reagan was a serial tax raiser. As governor of California, Reagan ?signed into law the largest tax increase in the history of any state up till then.? Meanwhile, state spending nearly doubled. As president, Reagan ?raised taxes in seven of his eight years in office,? including four times in just two years. As former GOP Senator Alan Simpson, who called Reagan ?a dear friend,? told NPR, ?Ronald Reagan raised taxes 11 times in his administration ? I was there.? ?Reagan was never afraid to raise taxes,? said historian Douglas Brinkley, who edited Reagan?s memoir. Reagan the anti-tax zealot is ?false mythology,? Brinkley said.
2. Reagan nearly tripled the federal budget deficit. During the Reagan years, the debt increased to nearly trillion, ?roughly three times as much as the first 80 years of the century had done altogether.? Reagan enacted a major tax cut his first year in office and government revenue dropped off precipitously. Despite the conservative myth that tax cuts somehow increase revenue, the government went deeper into debt and Reagan had to raise taxes just a year after he enacted his tax cut. Despite ten more tax hikes on everything from gasoline to corporate income, Reagan was never able to get the deficit under control.
3. Unemployment soared after Reagan?s 1981 tax cuts. Unemployment jumped to

10.8 percent after Reagan enacted his much-touted tax cut, and it took years for the rate to get back down to its previous level. Meanwhile, income inequality exploded. Despite the myth that Reagan presided over an era of unmatched economic boom for all Americans, Reagan disproportionately taxed the poor and middle class, but the economic growth of the 1980?s did little help them. ?Since 1980, median household income has risen only 30 percent, adjusted for inflation, while average incomes at the top have tripled or quadrupled,? the New York Times? David Leonhardt noted.

1. Reagan grew the size of the federal government tremendously. Reagan promised ?to move boldly, decisively, and quickly to control the runaway growth of federal spending,? but federal spending ?ballooned? under Reagan. He bailed out Social Security in 1983 after attempting to privatize it, and set up a progressive taxation system to keep it funded into the future. He promised to cut government agencies like the Department of Energy and Education but ended up adding one of the largest ? the Department of Veterans? Affairs, which today has a budget of nearly billion and close to 300,000 employees. He also hiked defense spending by over 0 billion a year to a level not seen since the height of the Vietnam war.
2. Reagan did little to fight a woman?s right to choose. As governor of California in 1967, Reagan signed a bill to liberalize the state?s abortion laws that ?resulted in more than a million abortions.? When Reagan ran for president, he advocated a constitutional amendment that would have prohibited all abortions except when necessary to save the life of the mother, but once in office, he ?never seriously pursued? curbing choice.
3. Reagan was a ?bellicose peacenik.? He wrote in his memoirs that ?[m]y dream?became a world free of nuclear weapons.? ?This vision stemmed from the president?s belief that the biblical account of Armageddon prophesied nuclear war ? and that apocalypse could be averted if everyone, especially the Soviets, eliminated nuclear weapons,? the Washington Monthly noted. And Reagan?s military buildup was meant to crush the Soviet Union, but ?also to put the United States in a stronger position from which to establish effective arms control? for the the entire world ? a vision acted out by Reagan?s vice president, George H.W. Bush, when he became president.
4. Reagan gave amnesty to 3 million undocumented immigrants. Reagan signed into law a bill that made any immigrant who had entered the country before

1982 eligible for amnesty. The bill was sold as a crackdown, but its tough sanctions on employers who hired undocumented immigrants were removed before final passage. The bill helped 3 million people and millions more family members gain American residency. It has since become a source of major embarrassment for conservatives.

1. Reagan illegally funneled weapons to Iran. Reagan and other senior U.S. officials secretly sold arms to officials in Iran, which was subject to a an arms embargo at the time, in exchange for American hostages. Some funds from the illegal arms sales also went to fund anti-Communist rebels in Nicaragua ? something Congress had already prohibited the administration from doing. When the deals went public, the Iran-Contra Affair, as it came to be know, was an enormous political scandal that forced several senior administration officials to resign.
2. Reagan vetoed a comprehensive anti-Apartheid act. which placed sanctions on South Africa and cut off all American trade with the country. Reagan?s veto was overridden by the Republican-controlled Senate. Reagan responded by saying ?I deeply regret that Congress has seen fit to override my veto,? saying that the law ?will not solve the serious problems that plague that country.?
3. Reagan helped create the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. Reagan fought a proxy war with the Soviet Union by training, arming, equipping, and funding Islamist mujahidin fighters in Afghanistan. Reagan funneled billions of dollars, along with top-secret intelligence and sophisticated weaponry to these fighters through the Pakistani intelligence service. The Talbian and Osama Bin Laden ? a prominent mujahidin commander ? emerged from these mujahidin groups Reagan helped create, and U.S. policy towards Pakistan remains strained because of the intelligence services? close relations to these fighters. In fact, Reagan?s decision to continue the proxy war after the Soviets were willing to retreat played a direct role in Bin Laden?s ascendancy.

[Robert Green]

You're a generous soul, Philo. There's been a remarkable attempt to rewrite history by some people concerning Reagan. They credit him with things that he had little to do with (the collapse of the Soviet Union was underway for a long time before Reagan became President). The Second Industrial revolution (the advent of personal computing) provided much of the recovery that Reagan-worshippers wrongly attribute to RR.

1. Reagan cut taxes for the Rich, increased taxes on the Middle Class - Ronald Reagan is loved by conservatives and was loved by big business throughout his presidency and there's a reason for it. When Reagan came into office in January of 1981, the top tax rate was 70%, but when he left office in 1989 the top tax rate was down to only 28%. As Reagan gave the breaks to all his rich friends, there was a lack of revenue coming into the federal government. In order to bring money back into the government, Reagan was forced to raise taxes eleven times throughout his time in office. One example was when he signed into law the Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982. Reagan raised taxes seven of the eight years he was in office and the tax increases were felt hardest by the lower and middle class.
2. Tripling the National Debt - As Reagan cut taxes for the wealthy, the government was left with less money to spend. When Reagan came into office the national debt was 0 billion, by the time he left the national debt had tripled to .8 trillion.
3. Iran/Contra - In 1986, a group of Americans were being held hostage by a terrorist group with ties to Iran. In an attempt to free the hostages, Ronald Reagan secretly sold arms and money to Iran. Much of the money that was received from the trade went to fund the Nicaragua Contra rebels who were in a war with the Sandinista government of Nicaragua. When the scandal broke in the Untied States it became the biggest story in the country, Reagan tried to down play what happened, but never fully recovered.
4. Reagan funded Terrorists - The attacks on 9/11 by al-Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden brought new attention to international terrorism. All of a sudden, Americans coast to coast wore their American flag pins, ate their freedom fries and couldn't wait to go to war with anyone who looked like a Muslim. What Americans didn't realize was that the same group that attacked the United States on 9/11 was funded by Ronald Reagan in the 1980s. Prepping for a possible war with the Soviet Union, Ronald Reagan spent billions of dollars funding the Islamist mujahidin Freedom Fighters in Afghanistan. With billions of American dollars, weapons and training coming their way, the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden took everything they were given and gave it back to the United States over a decade later in the worst possible way imaginable.
5. Unemployment issues - When Ronald Reagan came into office 1981, unemployment was at 7.5%. After Reagan cut taxes for the wealthy, he began raising taxes on the middle and lower class. Corporations started to ship more jobs out of the United States while hiring cheap foreign labor in order to make a bigger profit. While corporations made billions, Americans across the country lost their jobs. As 1982 came to a close, unemployment was nearly 11%. Unemployment began to drop as the years went on, but the jobs that were created were low paying and barely helped people make ends meet. The middle and lower class had their wages nearly frozen as the top earners saw dramatic increases in salary.
6. Ignoring AIDS - By the time the 1980s came around, AIDS had become one of the most frightening things to happen to the country in recent memory. No one understood what AIDS and HIV really was and when people don't understand something, they become scared of it. The fear of the unknown was sweeping across the country and Americans needed a leader to speak out about this horrible virus, that leader never came. Instead of grabbing the bull by the horns and taking charge, Reagan kept quiet. Reagan couldn't say the words AIDS or HIV until seven years into his presidency, a leader not so much.
7. Reagan gave amnesty to 3 million Undocumented Immigrants - In today's GOP, the idea of any immigrant staying in the United States whether they are legal or illegal isn't something that conservatives embrace. What might shock them is that in 1982 Ronald Reagan gave nearly 3 million undocumented workers amnesty. The biggest reason for undocumented workers coming to the United States is because corporations hire them at a cheaper rate than they would an American citizen. All the laws that would have cracked down on companies who hire undocumented workers were, of course, removed from the bill.
8. His attack on Unions and the Middle Class - The Republican war on unions and the middle class has been heating up in states like Wisconsin and Ohio, but it has been going on for a long time. Unions are formed to give a united voice to the workers in an attempt to create fairness between the corporations and their employees. On August 3rd, 1981, PATCO (Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization) went on strike in an effort to get better pay and safer working conditions. Two days later, taking the side of business, Ronald Reagan fired 11,345 workers for not returning to work.
9. Reagan raided the Social Security Trust fund - With Ronald Reagan cutting taxes so drastically, the U.S government was beginning to starve. Reagan added to the government and didn't make enough spending cuts to offset the tax cuts, so the money needed to come from somewhere. Ronald Reagan knew that his polices would create economic bubbles, unemployment would drop and some jobs would be created, but in time the bubble would burst leaving the economy in ruins. In order to counteract his own economic policies, Ronald Reagan needed to find somewhere else to get revenue.

Listening to Alan Greenspan and other advisers, Ronald Reagan raided the Social Security Trust Fund and replaced it with glorified IOU's. Ronald Reagan raised the Social Security tax rate which did add to the revenue, but because there is a cap on Social Security, currently no income over $113,700 is taxed for Social Security, the wealthy didn't feel the tax increase and the pain was pushed to the middle and lower classes.

1. Endless worship and never-ending praise - Ronald Reagan left office in January of 1989 and nearly 25 years later he is held up high by the modern Republican party. As nearly three decades have gone by since Ronald Reagan was in the White House, reality and history has faded with time. Conservative figures like anti-tax Grover Norquist created the "Ronald Reagan Legacy Project" with a goal of memorializing Reagan in all 50 states. As stated in this article, Ronald Reagan did a lot to hurt the United States, not just while he was in office, but in the years that have followed. What's scary about today's current Republican party is that while Reagan was one of the worst presidents this country has had to endure over the last 100 years, he would be considered too moderate to be nominated by today's conservative standards.

[Robert Green]

Sadly, that's the direction we're heading. Many doctors with good education credentials are being replaced by nurse practitioners and physician's assistants who just don't have the education required to replace doctors.

These NP/PAs are typically "sold" as doing things that it's too expensive for doctors to do, but in my experience many clinics and doctor's groups use them as much cheaper direct replacements for licensed MDs. The NP that my doctors use didn't impress me at all. She told me things about the meds she was prescribing that were just flat out wrong. Her understanding of my medical issues was weak, to say the least, and I was about to file a complaint with the medical board when they switched me back to an actual MD who had at least 10 years' more experience and education.

[trader_4]

Did someone just wake you up? Been asleep for the last month?

Oh, please. What a gross distortion. Sure, there were some minor adjustments of *some* taxes. Reagan never said he was in favor of lowering *all* taxes. When Reagan took office, the top federal income tax rate was 70%. When he left, it was 28%. The tax on capital gains was the same as when he took office. He did get it lowered for a few years from 28% to 20%, but later agreed to putting it *back* to 28% as part of a deal to lower income tax rates on ordinary income from 50% to 28%. So, now as is typical, you libs want to try to rewrite history and use that against him. By the big picture, income tax rates going from 70% to 28%, Reagan more than met his promises of cutting taxes. Also, he never had a Republican house to work with and only had a Republican Senate for part of his term. That he was able to achieve what he did is truly remarkable considering he had the Dems trying to row the boat the other way the whole time.

And you don't even realize how foolish you look. You spend half your time right here, arguing that Reagan created huge deficits because he *lowered* taxes. And the other half claiming that he actually raised taxes. But, heh, anything in the name of the lib cause, eh?

The deficit in 1981 was $79 bil, in 1989 it was $152 bil. Those are in real dollars, but we also had serious inflation during those years. It was 10%+ when Reagan took office thanks to years of failed policies. It was down to 4.8% when he left office, a job well done. So, let's look at those deficits fairly, in real dollars. 1981 $206 bil, 1989 $291 bil. That's an increase of 41%, not a doubling. And let's look at in context of the overall economy, GDP. In 1981 the deficit was 2.5% of GDP. In 1989, it was 2.7% of GDP. In other words, relative to the economy, the deficit was about the same when Reagan left as it was when he started. Why? Because his economic plan worked, there was huge job growth, with good, high paying jobs. GDP grew from $3.2T to $5.7T. Just the facts.

Yeah, let's focus on the nits and ignore the big picture. The Soviet Union defeated, the Cold War won, hundreds of millions of people freed, Eastern Europe free, America's respect in the world restored, the first nuclear arms reduction treaty in history, eliminating an entire class of nukes, the world at peace, the US military might restored, unemployment cut in half, inflation cut in half, job creation month after month of

300,000 to 400,000 including one month where we hit 1.2 mil jobs created.

Yeah, let's ignore all that and focus on apartheid in South Africa. How lame, but it does show the extremes you libs have to go to in order to try to rewrite history.

That lie was demolished above.

During the Reagan

Again, you conveniently ignore that inflation was running 5 to 10% during that period, as Reagan reversed the disaster he was handed. And that the economy doubled. As a percent of GDP, the national debt went from 31%, to 50%. And considering that we won the Cold War, defeated the Soviet Union, freed Eastern Europe, restored America's military might, cut interest rates in half, inflation in half, unemployment in half, created 28 million real, good paying jobs, I'd say that was a very good bargain.

BTW, it's rather peculiar that if you're worried about deficits and the national debt, that you'd be going back 30 years to Reagan instead of focusing on the last 6 years of Obama. Today the debt isn't 50% of GDP, it's 101% and still going up. As recently as

2007, the last normal year before the recession, the deficit under Bush was just $160bil and had been declining for several years. Right now it's $450bil, 3X that. And that's after Obama got the tax increase, Obamacare, all the things he said was gonna make for a woooonderful economy and fix the deficits. Where is the outrage about *that*? Instead you talk about Reagan, just like a 3 card Monty artist.

Reagan

It's not a myth. It's reality. Federal revenue 1981 $599 Bil, 1989 $991 Bil Just the facts.

Peculiar the fascination with Reagan. Under Reagan, the national debt was 50% of GDP. Today it's 101%, having crossed the 100% mark for the first time since WWII. And that is with Obama's tax hikes. Why aren't you bitching about that? We're headed toward Greece territory now. And at least with the increase during the Reagan years, I can list all the good things we got as part of the bargain. WTF exactly do we have for the $8 tril in debt added under Obama? He took it from $10 tril to $18tril, an increase of a whopping 80%. And he's still running $450bil deficits, not in a recession, but in a *recovery*, something *never* seen before. And you have the balls to talk about Reagan? Good grief.

And about this you lib loons are still bitching? You libs said he was gonna start a nuclear war and have the world in chaos. Reagan was right, his plan, his vision, his courage, worked. He defeated the Soviet Union, won the cold war, achieved the first nuke arms reduction deal in history, eliminating an entire class of nukes. And about that, you're still bitching, about that which worked? Remarkable you have the balls to even mention this, considering the state of US foreign policy and the chaos the world is in under Obama. Obama is carrying out the approach that you libs want. It's been a total failure. Russians took Crimea, have troops in the Ukraine, ISIS is winning country by country, Iraq which was stable just 4 years ago, has been given to ISIS because OBama ignored all the advice from his military advisors, the US ambassador to Iraq, etc. He went ahead and pulled all the troops out of Iraq, just to fulfill his campaign promise so he could get re-elected.

Another final lie to top it all off. The mujahideen were already in Afghanistan fighting against the Russians, which had invaded Afghanistan under Jimmy Carter. Does that ring a bell? It's what strong dictators do when there is a weak, pussy lib in office. That's why they just took Crimea, invaded Ukraine and Putin pees on Obama's head every chance he gets. Reagan did supply arms to the mujahideen so they could fight the Russians. It was very successful, they whooped the Russians real good. Was he supposed to be able to see 30 years into the future, that some of them would go on to become Taliban and Al Qaeda? Reagan has been gone for 3 decades, crazy muslims are sprouting up everywhere. Unbelievable that you'd try to pin any of that on him. And how exactly is Obama's typical lib refusal to supply needed arms to

*anyone* working? Again, given the unprecedented mess that Obama has the world in right now, it's unbelievable you;d have the nerve to even bring up Reagan. But that's what you loon libs like to do. It didn't work here, not today.