OT Property taxes

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On 04/21/2015 09:36 AM, micky wrote:

I don't care what anyone says , I know I will be paying for part of it.
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Considering the state of public education it's one of the most shameful things that local governments do. The studies I have seen repeatedly show that these deals where the local government pays (or helps pay) for a stadium almost NEVER work out well for the taxpayer. The jobs created are seasonal and low-paying (hawking peanuts) and big money often leaves the state in form of player's salaries and gate receipts.
Yet local governments get blind-sided time and time again because their lawyers are no match for the NFL and others who do these kind of shady deals all over the country. These shysters are very experienced in making stadium contracts LOOK favorable to the local government but are riddled with "escape" clauses benefitting team owners and very rarely the taxpayers:
How the NFL Fleeces Taxpayers - The Atlantic www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/...taxpayers/309448/ - Cached - Similar Sep 18, 2013 ... Taxpayers fund the stadiums, antitrust law doesn't apply to broadcast ... Any deal you make in that world doesn't make sense from the way the rest of us look at it. ... A new government entity, the Santa Clara Stadium Authority, is borrowing $950 ... Should something go wrong, taxpayers will likely take the hit.
Sports, Jobs, & Taxes: Are New Stadiums Worth the Cost ... www.brookings.edu/research/articles/1997/06/summer-taxes-noll - Cached - Similar State and local governments pay even larger subsidies than Washington. ... Unfortunately, these arguments contain bad economic reasoning that leads to .... Abuses from exorbitant stadium packages, sweetheart leases, and footloose franchises have left ... Almost always these provisions do not prevent a team from moving.
Football: A Waste of Taxpayers' Money | TIME.com ideas.time.com/2013/12/06/football-a-waste-of-taxpayers-money/ - Cached - Similar Dec 6, 2013 ... When the Minnesota legislature signed off on its stadium deal for the Vikings ... of Independents: How Libertarian Politics Can Fix What's Wrong With America. ..... Less people are paying the local government to park, frequesnting the ... It is always hilarious when someone claims their opponent has "no clue ...
Why Do Mayors Love Sports Stadiums? | The Nation www.thenation.com/article/.../why-do-mayors-love-sports-stadiums - Cached - Similar Jul 27, 2011 ... Stadium Status: Why Are Taxpayers Funding Billionaires' Stadiums? ... the same discount stores and fast-food joints that lined Market Street before the ... relocation threats to get the city of Pittsburgh to help fund a new hockey arena, ... Yet even stadium critics in local government say that the sway provided ...
Public Financing of Private Sports Stadiums - Outside The Beltway www.outsidethebeltway.com/public-financing-of-private-sports-stadiums/ - Cached - Similar May 23, 2012 ... Such arguments are always trotted out for these sweetheart deals, but the ... Even worse, taxpayers still service debt on now-demolished stadiums, including ... And we shouldn't forget that local governments often employ .... I had no objection to a temporary sales tax increase to pay for the park" GW Bush.
Oh, good: more sports teams asking taxpayers to pay for their stadiums www.motherjones.com/.../cleveland-sin-tax-browns-cavaliers-indians - Cached May 6, 2014 ... The Marlins Park fiasco created such a backlash that local voters rebelled ... How the Atlanta Braves' Proposed Stadium Deal Could Screw Their New Home ... Too bad she can't afford a good car. ... And it's always full of people. ... This is the logic used to justify all government spending: "it pays for itself.
Public Financing of Vikings Stadium a Bad Deal for Fans, Taxpayers ... www.cato.org/.../public-financing-vikings-stadium-bad-deal-fans-taxpayers - Cached - Similar May 23, 2012 ... Public Financing of Vikings Stadium a Bad Deal for Fans, Taxpayers ... Such arguments are always trotted out for these sweetheart deals, but the evidence ... And we shouldn't forget that local governments often employ ...
From:
http://www.google.com/search?q als+where+local+governments+pay+for+stadiums+are+always+bad+for+taxpayers
--
Bobby G.



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On Tuesday, April 21, 2015 at 11:50:49 AM UTC-4, Robert Green wrote:

It's probably a lot better than many other areas where the govt tries to create jobs, like Obama stimulus, where last I heard, jobs were costing about $300k to create. Or pouring money into the solar energy rat hole, where it produced nothing.

Kind of like how the solar energy companies fleeced Obama I guess.
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On 04/21/2015 10:36 AM, Robert Green wrote:
<snip>

Sports is fine and if if 100% pays for itself...I have no problem.
When Milwaukee decided they needed a new baseball stadium we were given a .1% temporary tax to pay for it...then they decided to make it permanent. Only an idiot did not see that coming.
Before we spend money for sports we need to make sure everyone is getting a good education, has food and health care.
Once that's taken care of, then...sure spend money on sports.
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Robert Green posted for all of us...

I think there is too much emphasis on sports. It is almost cult-like or a religion. Too late now. Look at sports pages vs honor rolls in newspapers. Kid scores a point big ta-do but kid that wins a science fair is on page 5 and proceeds to get mocked.
--
Tekkie *Please post a follow-up*

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On 04/24/2015 04:19 PM, Tekkie® wrote:

I have nothing at all against sports, simply the -sports-first- attitude.
De-funding education while funding sports is one of my pet peeves.
https://tobefree.wordpress.com/2013/02/03/george-orwell-in-1984-films-football-beer-and-above-all-gambling-filled-up-the-horizon-of-their-minds-to-keep-them-in-control-was-not-difficult/
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I don't have any thing against sports either. In fact it keeps thousands of people out of my hair on things I enjoy doing.
I do agree with you on how they are funded. I don't want any of my tax dollars going to build places for them to play. Charlotte NC built a big 'show place' for sports and later found it could not support its self so they asked the banks for forgiveness for some of the money. That probably affects me.
Just saw on the news that some big college wanted to buy a new jet for the sports people so they could fly around to the high schools to recrute new players. Why can't they just fly comercial ?
A number of years ago it was said that Michael Jorden got paid more to advertise a product (think it was shoes) that year than the workers of the whole factory made that year. I don't use that product, and hope never to use it.
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On 04/25/2015 05:48 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

Pretty sure it was shoes.
I do know that a large part of what we pay for products is the advertising.
I find that non-advertised products are sometimes 25% the price of the advertised brands.
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wrote:

How un-American of you! Remember, the football players are usually well educated college graduates and really deserve $15million a year for all the good they do for the world.
I have not bought a pro sports ticket in the past 50 years. Even if you gave me tickets, I don't care to attend though I have a few times many years ago.
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On 04/25/2015 09:18 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: d.

I grew up in Green Bay back in the 1950's
As soon as Vince Lombardi comes back I'll be going to football games
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This is simply supply and demand. Heck it can be shown that aren't even 36 first level quarterbacks available in the world.

--
?Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital.?
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Oren posted for all of us...

Never had any kidz so my 40 years of taxes is oppresive.In PA new gov Wolf wants to increase sales other taxes and lower the property tax. I will be dead and never see any lowering of property taxes; never happen. Just pay more. The state is responsible in PA to fund the skewlz but doesn't do it in the sububurbs. Philly & Pittsburgh get $$$$ but still need more and more.
In East PA we have the SE PA Transportation Authority (SEPTA) running thr publix body moving. Thet need money too. At one place I worked at I always wondered why the service people that worked on the signals and crossings would have a new vehicle every year... Never a scratch on a truck. I never had the nerve to ask why as he was there every other week it seemed. The had wreck many years ago and I was the first EMS chief o/s. Definition of mad house. Nobody seriously hurt but a lot of paperwork for me. Never found out how many "riders" sued...
--
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I had one.
For those of you that had none, do you really want even more wild kids running around? Think of it as partly for your own safety.
--
Dan Espen

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On 4/24/2015 9:31 PM, Dan Espen wrote:

Yes, those kids you educate will be the doctors taking care of you in your later days. If properly educated, the will be self sufficient and contribute to society instead of a drain on out tax dollars.
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On 04/24/2015 08:57 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Yep, even if I never had kids I'd still have been glad to pay for education. No one has gutted the system like Walker. It really is a crime.
If Walker wanted to go after the illegitimate -for profit- colleges I'd have thought differently.
Note: I do not have a problem with -for profit- colleges, I'm specifically talking about the ones that will automatically graduate anybody, no matter how poorly they do.
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I don't think I've ever seen property taxes go down more then a very tiny percent when some bond ended. Even when the bubble burst and real values took a nosedive the taxes stay high because it takes several years for the book value on the tax rolls to drop and in the meantime they keep raising the rates to make up for it. Virtually every year my taxes go up anywhere from 4 to 20% cuz these weasels in gvt just never seem to have enough money to squander.
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On 04/24/2015 04:09 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:

<snip>

During the so called "housing bubble" the city started assessing the value of houses /above/ actual market value making the assumption the value was going to keep rising.
That's when my taxes got so high I considered moving.
The city informed us that even though our bills were higher, they had actually lowered the tax rate. So I have...in a way...seen taxes go down...even though they went up.
Great Orwellian double-speak.
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On Saturday, April 25, 2015 at 6:25:55 AM UTC-4, philo wrote:

Then something is apparently very wrong in your city govt, so why aren't you complaining about that, instead of Gov Walker? Rising assessments should not affect the amount of taxes you pay. If a town needs X dollars to fund it's budget, then they apply whatever tax rate it takes to get that from the total assessed value of all the properties. If the value of the properties is higher, then the tax rate just gets set lower, so that they raise the same amount. What raises taxes is uncontrolled spending.

Typically some people do wind up paying more taxes because all properties don't always appreciate proportionally. Here at the shore people with waterfront properties have been complaining because when revaluation was done, there properties went up substantially more than other inland properties in other neighborhoods. But that isn't the govt's fault, it just reflects the economic reality. So, they wind up paying more, some other folks wind up paying less. For everyone to be paying higher, it would require that your local govt decided to jump their total spending up. Again, that would be the local govt, not Walker.
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On 04/25/2015 07:41 AM, trader_4 wrote:

Without complaining, the situation eventually rectified itself. The free market system though perhaps not perfect is the best we have.
I've found through experience that any time I've ever complained about anything the situation only got worse.
The one exception is that I can say anything I like on Usenet and absolutely nothing happens.
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On Saturday, April 25, 2015 at 9:03:13 AM UTC-4, philo wrote:

That's probably because you're a Democrat and the solutions that you want for the things you're complaining about are all wrong.
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