OT: police refuse to do their job

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SteveB wrote:

Greetings Steve,
My entire professional life I have never done anything that I was trained to do as a professional. I worked as a consultant for JPMorgan in the investment bank for about three years before switching to real estate investing. I worked in numerous other positions before that. I never had any training of any sort. I never went to business school. I never went to school to be an "electrician." I never went to school to be a "plumber." I have done all of these things and many more successfully. I am not knocking school. I am only saying that a certain percent of people are capable of learning on their own from the available resources around them. Given proper resources I believe that I am, for instance, capable of lifting fingerprints from the metal portions of my car and comparing them to tenant fingerprints. I won't have 100% success, but I bet my success rate will be markedly higher than the "professional" chance of success (ZERO in this case because they won't even make out a police report.)
Hope this helps, William
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Given proper resources I believe that

I was involved in a missing children's organization for about four years. I even got to meet John Walsh on several occasions. Part of the process was ID cards, fingerprinting, and a DNA sample. (a simple buccal mouth swab)
Getting equipment and learning fingerprinting and fingerprint gathering techniques is not the issue. I have fingerprinted hundreds of children. It is easy most of the time. Learning to do fingerprinting, and fingerprint processing is probably something anyone with a body temperature IQ could become very proficient at. Kits are available to the layman from hundreds of sources. Books and instruction manuals abound. I am sure with your intelligence and attention to detail that you would probably be better at it than a lot of "fingerprint experts" that are now being paid to do it.
That is not the problem.
The problem is proving anything in court. You have chain of custody issues. You have probable cause issues. You have circumstantial evidence issues. So many hurdles and obstacles have to be overcome in order to even get INTO court with a case. If it is weak at all, the DA will decline prosecution.
Your frustration is understandable. It is just that you really can't get there from here. Were you to find a print that identified a child killer, the police would have to get all other sorts of evidence to PROVE the case, and not just the one print, as they do on television. And then, they would have to go to court, and back up the objections of defense lawyers regarding chain of custody of evidence, legality of how the evidence was collected, probable cause, and on and on and on.
It's like when a police officer says, "Hey, lets stop this car", even if they find something, it probably won't stand up as a good stop. Sure the bad guys go to jail, but they don't stay there long, and don't do time. Most times they are on the street before the cop is finished with the paperwork, hence the question:
Why do police refuse to do their job?
If your job was shoving sand against the tide, would you become a little weary, too?
Steve
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<snip>

<snip>
Many years ago, I had some _engraved_ tools stolen out of a truck while working out of town. I was pissed and disheartened. I did call and report the missing items to the police as I was leaving the area. 2 or 3 weeks later I was back in the area. I asked an electrician from the job of any likely pawn shops to check. I checked where he recommended and found all my stuff. The pawn shop was across the street from local police station. So I went there. They said to come back in a few hours and they would have my stuff. I did and they did. I was lucky. Would have never seen it again if I hadn't done my own detective work.
It's too bad things are the way they are.
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No Spam wrote:

Here I am told that the pawn shops keep it for six months before putting it out to discourage people from finding it. They also put it out bit by bit. All the same I am going to look. I do engrave my tools and write my name with a marker. I don't think it is as helpful as people like to believe it is but I do it.

Terrific. Doing your own detective work can bear fruit. Most people seem to believe that I am wasting my time.

Agreed.
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" snipped-for-privacy@wdeans.com" wrote: ....

To find some property in a pawn shop assuming you're in an area that isn't so large as to make the number possible essentially uncountable is at least within reason. Thinking you'll track down unknown suspect(s) via a home-grown fingerprint kit isn't...
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Duane Bozarth wrote:

Greetings,
Suppose, for instance, that it was a tenant. Why is it so hard to believe that I might be able to lift a fingerprint from the metal portion of my car and match it to that of a tenant? If it isn't a tenant this time then perhaps it will be next time. I do not think that it is foolish and hopeless to try. I do want to know a little more about proper procedure before attempting anything to increase my chances of success.
William
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com says...

Let's see now:
1) You have no expertise in lifting fingerprints. 2) You don't have access to the fingerprints of your tenants. 3) You have no legal way of obtaining either of the above.
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says...

He also has no experience in matching fingerprints to others. It's not that easy. And authorities would not recognize his amateur results.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
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snipped-for-privacy@wdeans.com wrote:

You don't appreciate how the real world works. The cop's view is that the do-bad will EVENTUALLY be caught and sent to probation. Maybe not for this crime, but for something. All most all mopes end up sanctioned with community service or some other approbation. It is hoped that, by feeling shame, the reprobates will come to Jesus.
The cop's job is to put away as many crooks as possible, and here he is wasting time taking a report from you! No wonder he's irritated. The cop knows that someday the slope who burglarized your car will be caught in the act - tomorrow, next month, someday.

Don't use "The Club." While it may be made of super-hard Titanium, your steering wheel his made of plastic. One snip of a bolt cutter and your car's a goner. You would learn facts like this in your local Crime Prevention seminar.

True. Don't engrave: stamp. Serial numbers on guns are stamped in place and cannot be removed by grinding. The metal is distorted all the way through and the number can ALWAYS be retrieved. This fact, too, would be brought out in your local Crime Prevention workshop.

When *I* call 911, I first request an ambulance for the squint moaning on my doorstep. THEN I ask for the police dispatcher.
Trouble is, there's not enough money for the cop's to do the job the way most people want it done. In my city, we have over 200 stolen cars, 20 armed robberies, uncountable fights, and 300 burglaries per day. Then there's loud music complaints, abandoned cars, naked pedestrians, and neighbor's-dog-peeing-on-my-bushes calls.

Yes. In my town, the local cop shop divides the world into two classes: Houston Police Officers and thieves.
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wrote:

Suspects,actually.
Police are under NO obligation to appear when you call for them. If they are busy elsewhere,you are out of luck. And you cannot sue them for not coming when you call.
--
Jim Yanik
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wrote:

You entirely missed the point. The next two sentences in my post are:
"The *detective* who showed up proceeded to go through a long explanation of how the "actors" broke in using a jimmy. Sheesh!"
You cut that, and with no indication that you did so.
To make it as obvious as I possibly can for you, I was using a story to show that the police detective was an incompetent pompous blowhard and that if he couldn't see the obvious, that the door was kicked in, there was no reasonable expectation he would find the burglar, even if he tried.
--
Luke
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Luke wrote: ..... the cops everywhere I've lived are only

Glad to hear it.
To spend thousands of $$ in salaries and equipment investigating a theft that's probably worth a few hundred $$ in loss at most(and for which the insurance company will compensate the victim) is not efficient use of resources, unless there are easily identifiable suspects. When the police do spend their time investigating these things, usually they find that the property, if recovered, is not identifiable because the owner didn't take take the time and effort to mark the items or to record serial numbers. People don't think it's worth the effort to protect their own property but feel the police should make it top priority when they lose it.
Speeders and drunk drivers kill people and contribute to many times more the property loss than minor thefts. This is where, along with other violent crime, police resources SHOULD be targeted. Saving lives is more of a priority than finding property that the owner didn't even think was worth protecting or properly identifying him/herself.
If I had my house or car broken into I'd be upset and angry but would get over it in a week and life would go on. If a member my family was killed by a drunk driver or a speeding car, I'd be devastated and outraged - for the rest of my life.
Drunks kill. Dangerous drivers kill. Seatbelts save lives.
It never fails to amaze me where people put their priorities and how they trivialize those things that cost us the most grief.
Keith
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"Speeders and drunk drivers kill people and contribute to many times more the property loss than minor thefts. "
Most people recognize that many speeding tickets are issued more to generate revenues for the government by fleecing the public, than for safety issues. For example, here in NJ, when they raised the speed limit from 55 to 65 on major highways, they doubled the fines for speeding. Think that was done for safety and not to take more hard earned dollars for the political hacks to waste? And if speed kills, how come the safety record of roads like the autobahn are better than many of the roads in the US?
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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net says...

Likely it's because the training and examinations required to get driver's licenses in Europe are more stringent than those in most U.S. states. Also, you're not comparing apples with apples - I'm sure that the safety record of many U.S. interstate highways is similar to that of the autobahn.
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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:
<snip>

etc when driving on the autobahn. At least that's what I saw on the History Channel. . . .
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: "Speeders and drunk drivers kill people and contribute to many times : more : the property loss than minor thefts. " : : Most people recognize that many speeding tickets are issued more to : generate revenues for the government by fleecing the public, than for : safety issues. ===> That sounds like sour grapes more than anything legitimate. Easily available public records show that you are wrong and I don't believe you have anything other than a sour grape to base that on.
For example, here in NJ, when they raised the speed : limit from 55 to 65 on major highways, they doubled the fines for : speeding. Think that was done for safety and not to take more hard : earned dollars for the political hacks to waste? ===> Yes. Take the time to look into the difference in damages and life/limb losses for accidents between 55 and 65 mph and you'll be quite surprised from the sound of your post. If you really want to get back at them, see how sound your therory is: Get everyone in NJ to not speed and see if it puts them out of work. By your logic, it should. NJ also isn't the only place that situation exists; those are federal speed limits.
And if speed kills, : how come the safety record of roads like the autobahn are better than : many of the roads in the US? ===> Having spent time there, and having driven the Autobahn, I can tell you why: They are professional drivers. -- Insurance is VERY expensive. -- a driver's license is VERY expensive. And almost impossible to get back if you lose it, which is very easy to do. -- Training requirements to GET a driver's license are extensive, and a lot more than driving around a few barrels and markers as most places here are. And, they'll cost you a bundle, too. Lots and lots of taxes on such things.
The Autobahn isn't the only high-speed road in Europe: It's common all over, not just in Germany. In most places, ignoring right/left confusions: -- first lane available is a 55 mph limit. -- next lane is usually 75 or whatever that particular section of road is posted for. -- Farthest lane over is for passing only. Well, at a 100 mph speed, you can pass plenty of cars real fast <g> and I can tell you it's a party experience and you really get to feeling sorry for the car after a few miles of 90+, which they'll allow in a lot of places as long as you don't change lanes. -- You can lose your license for something as simple as a lane change. -- You can lose your license if a patrol sees you cause another driver to make their brake lights come on. -- They're strict, people KNOW how to drive, pay well for the privilege, and respect the law, regardless of the reasons.
Not only that but the roads are as clean as a whistle over there; you can almost eat off them. There's never any debris on the road, never an uncovered truck, etc. etc. etc.. You might see a lot of radio-active trucks, but no uncovered gravel or garbage trucks <g>.
They even provide side ramps for trucks should they lose breaks or wheels at a high speed when there isn't perfectly straight road ahead: It's a long, long incline, straight, easy to get onto, wide, and the slope increases as you go further along it. All along the way are back-places, to let the rigs roll into after it gets stopped if it can't hold itself on the grade. Oh, most of the ones I saw also ended in barricades, gravel, and some very rough terrain that nothing would roll back down anyway.
You need an education for your misinformation.
Pop
-- :
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"-- Insurance is VERY expensive. -- a driver's license is VERY expensive. And almost impossible to get back if you lose it, which is very easy to do. -- Training requirements to GET a driver's license are extensive, and a lot more than driving around a few barrels and markers as most places here are. And, they'll cost you a bundle, too. Lots and lots of taxes on such things. "
I got it Pop! The solution to traffic safety is to make everything very expensive and have lots and lots of taxes!
"You need an education for your misinformation. "
Seems like I have the info correct. Traffic safety on the autobahn is just fine, despite no speed limits on major portions of it. Proof positive that speed and the incidence of accidents on highways are not directly related. Even you seem to agree with this, listing a whole lot of reasons why the autobahn is safe that have nothing to do with speed. Maybe we should work on doing some of those things here. Not the tax and make things expensive part. But doing a better job of driver education and testing, getting after left hand dicks and people who drive unsafely would be a good start, instead of handing out easy speeding tickets to raise revenue.
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According to that, then if we just took fifty American drivers to the Autobahn, and turned them loose, they would do fine. I suggest that in order to be fair, that each age group be represented, particularly those under 30.
That would be an interesting statistic. How the 25 drivers under 30 did versus the 25 over 30 years old.
Any predictions?
The younger ones would do better because of faster reflexes? The older ones wouldn't get out of the slow lane?
Steve
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Read about a similar situation a few years back. Younger drivers (this was teenagers) react faster, but tended to get into difficult situations more often that older drivers. While the younger drivers had the potential to be safer, they took more risks than more experienced drivers, thus causing more crashes. You may find some information on studies done by insurance companies.
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You may find some information on studies done by insurance

Perhaps THE most interesting study I saw was the one done in Utah. Cell phone drivers were worse than drunk drivers.
Steve
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