What do you plan to do with these cheap handguns???
Are they an extra gift for the thieves?
Do you WANT to leave firearms where they can easily be stolen???
How would these guns sitting in easily burgled autos or vacant homes going
to protect your property,unless YOU are there to USE them?
(and I suspect you wouldn't -use- them,nor would it be legal.)
Are you deranged?
(I believe you certainly are not rational.)
Why aren't you buying auto alarms?
A cheap,"non-functional" handgun can STILL be used to commit crimes;how
will you know if the gun a crook is pointing at you is functional,or even
loaded;it doesn't matter,you HAVE to treat it as a real,working gun.
Point an unloaded or fake gun at a police officer,and they will shoot you
if you refuse to comply with their instructions.Shoot a crook threatening
you with an unloaded or non-functional gun,and it gets logged as a legit
self-defense and you do not get prosecuted.
And such guns -could- be repaired to make them functional enough for their
This idiot thinks it's better to increase the severity of a theft(by
leaving firearms with his other goods) rather than make any effort to
protect his property *before* it gets stolen.
"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."
A Thousand Bucks would buy a really decent alarm(several),with a pager so
he could go out there and detain or even shoot the crooks,doing a real
public service,rather than arming criminals and hoping it makes the police
"look harder" after it'a all stolen.
I bet he also was too LAZY to write his local paper about how law
enforcement ignored his theft,to make a big,public stink about it.
Interesting idea. I'd make sure they were no-ops first, and non-repairable
(not too hard to do if you have a decent set of basic tools).
Another intereseting option would be to use replicas instead of real no-op
weapons. they're not htat expensive, and a decent one would fool someone
that doesn't know guns.
One of my personal favorites (and how I store my weapons) is to custom load
a round with the largest powder charge it will take, and make the slug
ovesized enough that it won't fit down the barrel. Each of my stored weapons
has a round like that in the chamber. If someone ever steals one, it looks
properly loaded. If they ever try to use it, they're going to loose a big
chunk of flesh...... Liability? maybe, but I'm just a hobbyist homeloader,
and I guess I must have made a mistake with that round......
What really sucks is that this is the type of thing that has to be done to
get the local cops to actually do *anything*. that and the fact that we pay
taxes to pay them to sit in the donut shop, while we're left to our own
devices to protect ourselves and our property.....
When they rack the slide to see if it's loaded, it will eject your
"make the slug ovesized enough that it won't fit down the barrel"? You
cast your own bullets and have a special oversized mold set up for each
caliber? What a load of BS.
Many years back I had my house broken into. I happened to be over at my
neighbor's house having a few beers & was having a leak when I looked out
the window and saw a guy coming out of my back door carrying a couple of my
old leather travel bags. I called the cops and they caught the loser about
5 minutes later standing at a bus stop a block away. They came & took
prints, etc to build up a case. Very helpful & professional. The guy they
caught had actually been at my neighbor's a little earlier soliciting
business for his father's landscaping business. Guess he was moonlighting.
Then you get the regular flatfoots that have nothing better to do than
harass people for minor crap whilst more serious crimes are occuring. I
often laugh when I see interceptors speeding by with the lights flashing
thinking that they just got a call that fresh donuts were just put out at
Many years ago, we left our house and came back a few hours later. On the
door was a business card to call Officer Smith at the local police
My neighbor came over and told me this story:
Some burglars came to my house. My neighbor saw them. He got his shotgun,
his wife called 911. He came over with pump shotgun and made the burglars
lay on the floor. Cops came. Caught the burglars. Had to huddle as to
whether or not to take my neighbor to jail.
Since it was not his property he was guarding, he was in the wrong. He
could have been charged with some serious crimes by the burglars, who have
rights, even when committing burglary.
Not sure what to do, they called for a supervisor. Supervisor came, heard
all the stories, including my neighbor's who was then in handcuffs.
Supervisor emptied the pump shotgun of all shells onto the ground. He
declared, "You can charge this man with nothing. This gun is not loaded."
Eyes met and everyone understood.
They unhooked my neighbor, and he got a talking to by the supervisor about
rights on HIS property and lack of rights on his NEIGHBOR's property. And a
warning next time to just call in and let the police handle it.
The burglars had committed several burglaries in the neighborhood, and were
sentenced to a year each.
Sometimes, police do their job, and are reasonable men.
Funny. It seems like it is related a lot to the attitude of the people they
are dealing with. I wonder why that is...............
Neighbor was not necessarily in the wrong -- he was making a "citizen's
arrest", which he is entitled to do if the burglars were committing a
felony, or some specific misdemeanors that vary from state to state.
But the supervisor's solution worked pretty good too.
Bob <-- not a lawyer
Not sure what it is in your state. Only sure what it was for this story in
my state. And, according to the authorities present at the time he WAS
"necessarily" wrong. They just applied common sense and fairness to the
Can't tell. You didn't post the relevant conversation, and I don't want to
go back and look it up.
I was getting from your inference that all a person had to do was
">>>>>>>>>", and I said that might be true where you live, but not true
where I live, and not true where someone else lives.
I made no statement that anyone "had to" do anything nor that any
particular action would be generically true--simply stated that the use
of deadly force in a situation of only nonaggravated burglary was would
be a likely reason for there being fault <IN THE INSTANCE OF THE STORY
TOLD>. Any further inference drawn was yours, not mine.
On the 1st of October this will be changed in Florida. I assume by the
middle of October there will be a test case.
They don't say you can use deadly force to protect property but they
do say you can use deadly force to protect yourself and you do not
have the obligation of retreat anywhere you have a right to be.
This puts you on par with the cops. They can't shoot a fleeing felon
but they can interpose their body in the direction of flight and shoot
the felon if they think the person presents a threat of imminent
I really think the CCW holders will need another step in their
training to sort this out but it does give someone more latitude in
confronting a person committing a non-forceable felony.
Forceable felons were always covered by the CCW law.
I must keep up on this, as I am licensed in Florida. Utah and Nevada call
them permits, Florida calls it a license.
That's the trouble. You have to go every five years to take a refresher
course, and this stuff changes every week. And each city, county, state,
and borough has its own laws that supercede one another.
So, what do you do? As I posted, and so many disagreed with, you just about
have to let them kill you before you shoot. And one size does not fit all,
and what one does in his state/county/city may not be legal in another.
And we can all talk about it and talk about it. But the only things that
matter are what each person does when it happens, and the decisions from the
court when it happens.
In Florida,you can use deadly force to stop a "forcible felony".
In the Florida concealed weapon permit pamphlet I have right here at
hand,it says burglary is a "forcible felony".
It does not specify on one's own property.
This pamphlet is current,not effective come October.
Here in Indiana, a citizen may use deadly force to stop a break-in at *A*
residence. Not necessarily his *own* residence. There was a case in
Indianapolis some years back, where a homeowner shot a guy trying to break
into the house next door. Reporters wondered why the shooter wasn't charged;
prosecutor said "nothing to charge him with."
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
He wasn't using deadly force to protect property. He was using threat
of deadly force to detain the burglars he caught-in-the-act until the
police he summoned got there. I don't know if that's OK in his state or
not, but it is a quite different issue. The police at the scene could
have been wrong too, and since it didn't go before a judge we'll never
know. (I suspect is was a proper arrest.) But the story had a happy
ending anyway because the supervisor had enough sense to unload the
shotgun and let the guy go -- so the actual details of the law were a
moot point and justice prevailed.
If "using threat of deadly force to detain the burglars
caught-in-the-act until the police [arrive]" is in fact illegal then
all of us here, as well as the police supervisor and the neighbor,
appear to believe that the law is unjust. We are therefore happy with
the outcome (the law wasn't enforced).
The problem I see with this is that the majority of the citizens in the
state believe otherwise. In my opinion those citizens are, to say the
least, "misguided." Still, in their minds, the thieves were just
after money when the neighbor was risking their LIFE. This is not a
case of the supervisor showing leniency; this is a case of the
supervisor disregarding the moral code of the citizens of the state in
favor of his own moral code (*which I happen to agree with this time).
I had an instance where someone was defecating in the back yard of one
of my properties and smoking crack there. The house was broken into
during this time period. A few days later I came in the early morning
and found someone asleep in the back yard about 6 feet from a no
trespassing sing. I called the police expecting them to charge the
individual with trespass, defecating on my lawn, and possibly the break
in if they could find any evidence. Instead the police just asked the
individual to leave. I asked them why they didn't at least charge them
with trespass and they told me it was because the individual couldn't
pay. In this case I disagreed with the decision of the police.
I was furthermore the object of much hatred from the neighbors when the
person sleeping in my back yard supposedly later died of exposure and
my response was that the police should have arrested them.
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