Old dog, having to learn new tricks. "GFCI Question"

[sleepdog]

Somebody please help this man before someone gets deep fried.

[Todd H.]

I'd strongly recommend picking up an alternate book that's Yellow and has a section entitled "electricians."

If you don't know exactly what you're doing, this is especially one electrical project (Spa heater. Humans. Water. Electricity.) you should be calling a pro to do.

Water, bathing humans, electricity, and hobby handymen do not mix.

Best Regards,

-- Todd H.

[kevin]

And not to mention, the person in question seems to be intent on hooking _some_ white wire up to the neutral of the GFCI, without seeming to really care about _which_ particular white wire gets used. Just pigtail some other neutral? The guy seems to be dangerously careless, and further, doesn't seem to realize that he doesn't know a thing about GFCIs, how they work, why they are needed, or how to install one.

Now, the thread would be different if he just said "Gee, I don't think I understand the GFCI wiring for a 230V device with no neutral. Can someone explain?"

[ Course, then we could have just said "if you don't know enough to simply read the instructions in the GFCI box, you probably should call someone who does" ]

-Kevin

[Todd H.]

I dunno there... I know enough about electricity, liability, and human nature enough to identify people who know just enough to be _really_ dangerous. If your posting doesn't raise a red flag, I dunno what would.

Yet.

:-)

-- Todd H.

[Todd H.]

The person in question seems surprised/annoyed that a device that heats water that people soak in would have a GFCI. As such, their ability to know (much less follow) rules becomes rather suspect.

Agreed!

-- Todd H.

[<j_richard]

I have a Spa Heater that requires a 240V 30 Amp feed. There is no place to land a neutral, but the Damn thing requires a GFCI Breaker. What do I land in the lug for the Neutral (on the breaker). I just took the curly-cue white wire and landed it to the neutral bus and started enjoying the bubbles. Testing of the GFCI Breaker, I realized that the trip button didn&#39;t cause it to trip.

Time passes and I get a call from my brother-in-law asking me (the electrician) to hook up his spa heater. Same Problem is staring me right in the face. His new Heater does have what would appear to be two ground lugs. One inside the makeup box, and one outside. Is one for the neutral? I am OK risking my on life, ( I&#39;m just in it for the bubbles!), but my sister is a different story. Can someone enlightin me or am I going to have to wipe the dust off my 1981 Code Book?

[<j_richard]

[Ignoramus27279]

Why, if the person is able to follow the rules, they can do it, no?

I fixed my own hot tub and am relatively confident that it will be fine as far as dangers to humans are concerned. I used a lot of help from this newsgroup.

Everything that needs to be grounded is grounded, everything is on GFCI, GFCI tests correctly, load matches breaker capacity, neutral is isolated from ground, etc.

The key question, obviously, is whether the person in question understand what needs to be done, and second, are they actually double checking what they do.

i

[<j_richard]

[sleepdog]

I know you need some sound advice!!!

And to talk about not appreciating humor... pot kettle black.

And what of your hot tub experiment? I like my friends and neighbors crispy.

[RBM]

You only mention heaters, what about pumps and blowers and control circuits. Usually a hot tub requires a four wire circuit GFCI protected. You would have a ground lug inside the control panel and a bonding lug on the outside. Neutrals only go on neutral bars never on ground lugs and you don&#39;t drive ground rods to ground the tub or equipment. Without having enough information about your equipment, my best guess is that your GFCI breaker is defective

[Bud]

The curly-cue white wire from the GFCI breaker does go to the panel neutral bar. The test button uses a test current which may require this neutral bar connection. If the curly-cue wire is connected and the test button doesn&#39;t work the breaker is likely defective.

If the load is 240V with no neutral there will be no connecton to the breaker load-side neutral.

Neutral is never connected to ground except in service panel (actually there are some odd exceptions). The ground lug in the box is for a ground wire run with the supply conductors. The lug outside the box is probally for bonding the metal parts in the tub.

Your 1981 code book actually won&#39;t help you.

Bud--

[Ignoramus27279]

that&#39;s wrong and may mess with your GFCI. the only grounding point in a regular home is the ground/neutral bar of your panel.

I would suggest to post a complete description of what you have done here, with pictures. You may get some helpful corrections. As it stands, it is not quite proper.

i

[Ignoramus27279]

Does a 220V GFCI have a neutral? I have never seen a 220V GFCI, but I wonder just why it wouldneed a neutral.

You have a good point.

i

[<j_richard]

BAM! Now thats an answer!

Thanks