No shower curbs

I am wondering how these bathrooms are done without a shower curb:
http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/project_images/wetroom/wetroom.jpg
http://www.impey-showers.com/prod_img/hd6_s_1.jpg
There is still a shower pan below, or no? Or you have to consider the entire bathroom a giant shower pan and slope everything to the shower drain?
I have a bathroom I am remodeling where the space between the shower edge and the closet flange is two inches less than the minimum clearance (16") and I don't want a 4"-6" thick curb to hold up the shower door, I was thinking this may be the solution, but may be there are other creative ways.
Thanks,
MC
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snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

Curbless showers are rather common in new construction and are commonly called "accessible" or some such term. They don't use a conventional shower pan from what I seen but have a waterproof membrane under the tile. I'd also imagine that the membrane extends further than expected and the pitch toward the drain might be just a bit steeper than normal. Of course a sane designer would make sure that the shower head was positioned so that a full stream couldn't be sprayed across the room. I've been considering doing a curbless when I re-do the bathroom off of my master bedroom but suspect that it is just too small to pull it off.
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John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]
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I am thinking about it for my master bath. I am already half way through the remodeling, relocated drains, relocated supplies and I have removed a tub so I can have a larger shower area (about 6.5' x 5' shower with rain shower, sprays and hand showers from two walls). Along I have been thinking I need a raised curb along the edge with a slider shower door...
Then I saw some of these and think I have not really done anything yet to preclude from having a curbless shower. Now, my concrete slab has a trench in it where the shower drain all the way to the toilet drain and new vent. If I want to put a pitch of the entire shower area (or a bit beyond) to the drain, there is no way I can do it without taking out more concrete and redoing the slope of the slab.
I am not sure I am explaining it right. If the slab is now level across the entire shower area, then the only to pitch it to a drain WITHOUT A CURB is to either redo the slab and establish a slope so on the high side it matches the bathroom floor elevation and the low side the drain elevation, or alternatively you raise the elevation of the entire bathroom and keep the shower drain at the current slab elevation. I don't see another way around it without a curb.
I wonder what the smallest curb could be, if there is a way to "minimize" the curb appearance.
MC
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My sister was in a accessible hotel room. There was water all over the bathroom. If you think you might need it some day then it would be a good idea if the rest of the house is assessable. But otherwise you might hate it. If the rest of the house has accessibility problems then why ruin a bathroom.

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snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

Just the shower area has a shower pan, and this situation usually requires a ground floor on a slab with a depressed area in the slab for the pan. It can be done as a retrofit if you want to chip out the concrete for the pan space.
In the past, I have done several of these for ADA compliant shower accessability. Since then, the look has become fashionable, so I have done several for non-ADA situations and they do look quite good.
The idea is that the shower area will have a pan and the shower floor will be sloped to the drain. The rest of the floor might get wet, but it can be wiped up or squeegeed into the shower area.
One thing that you need to know about these types of showers is that the drain must be a 2" drain with two inch DWV. (Showers require this anyway, according to code, but in a retrofit, I don't know what you are converting from.) You don't want water backing up in the shower pan as you have very little capacity and the lack of curb makes a stopped up drain much more dangerous.
Perhaps for that reason, I have only seen these on a ground floor. I have only seen them in houses on a slab, but they can be installed on other types of foundations as well (I just haven't personally done any).
Here is an example of a fiberglass pan for this situation for illustration purposes:
http://www.barrierfree.org/fiberglass_shower_pans.htm
You can make this pan using any standard shower pan method. Search for barrier free or ADA compliant pans.
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Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
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wrote:

Allison thanks. My shower area is about 5x7, and right now half of the concrete slab is out since I relocated the drains...but I am not sure I want to bust up the entire shower area then pour a thinner slab. 2" drain is not a problem I think my new drain is 2" PVC, there wasa an old 1.5" brass drain for tub that I took out.
How do they attach a piece of glass to the ceiling and floor and yet it stays frameless. Does the floor and ceiling need to be "notched" to slide the piece of glass in? or metal channels need to be installed into the walls?
Thanks,
MC
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all showers should be like this for the day anyone gets disabled.....
just hurt your knee bad once, and see how difficult things can be
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MiamiCuse wrote:

You don't pour it thinner, just deeper. Since this is a retrofit, you would remove the concrete in the shower area, plus some of the dirt underneath. Dowel some rebar into the existing slab, then pour your 4" of concrete from the edges, sloped toward the drain. You only have to be down the thickness of the tile + your pan at the edges and just slightly lower at the drain. If you use the rubberized membrane for your shower pan, the depth below finished floor at the edges is only about 3/4".

There are different ways to attach the glass, but they are not notched into either the floor or the walls. They are seated on small hard rubber pads and then siliconed into place. The real strength comes from the corner brackets which allow the glass to be fastened together and to the wall. You can see these in the second link that you supplied at the top and bottom of the corners.
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Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
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Robert Allison wrote:

I forgot to mention that some frameless incorporate these clear channels when the walls or floor are not straight or not flat enough to use just silicone. You can see examples here:
http://www.crlaurence.com/ProductPages/P/PVPS95_16494.html?Origin
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Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
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wrote:

Thanks Robert.
In looking at these frameless glass basically "glue" at top and bottom, free on one end and bracketed on the other...I wonder if this would be a safety issue in case someone for example, slip on the tile and not thinking and hold out their hands in hope of the glass panel will break their fall only to crash through it...They need to be thick structural glass 1/2" minimum don't they?
MC
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MiamiCuse wrote:
Snipped

The frameless that I have dealt with are never free on one end. Allowances are made to somehow attach each corner, even if it terminates in thin air, so to speak. They would attach to the ceiling and floor.
They ARE rather thick, probably 3/8" or 1/2", and they are safety glass. It would be difficult, but not impossible to break the glass, IMHO. That thought has never entered my mind when dealing with these showers, except when they are carrying them in to the jobsite, or if they are stored onsite. Once installed, they seem quite strong.
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Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
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May be a very low profile extruded aluminum channel on top or bottom too could make it stronger.
Thanks,
MC
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snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

posted, it looks like you might be able to enclose the shower with glass to the floor, including door. The pix look great, but I certainly can't envision a curbless shower without something all the way around to keep the water in. A good glass shop that does the kind of work you posted links for might give you some leads.
We have one walk-in, one shower/tub combo. Both formerly had aluminum enclosures which were taken out before we moved here. Our condo is about 40 y/o, and I have clear plastic shower curtains. Wash 'em couple times a year and convert them to dropcloths when they don't clean up well.
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On Feb 12, 9:38 am, snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/project_images/wetroom/wetroom.jpghttp://www.impey-showers.com/prod_img/hd6_s_1.jpg
There are a bunch of ways to do it. There are compressible rubber 'saddles' that act as a barrier and still allow a wheelchair, or foot, to cross over it without problems. There are products that waterproof the entire tiled installation (a very good idea) - http://www.schluter.com /
Depending on how a particular part of the bathroom is to likely get wet will determine how concerned you should be about waterproofing areas outside of the shower and will determine how much of a slope you need to build in. If you're on a slab on grade (I think you are, right?) then waterproofing is not such a big concern, but if the bathroom is sitting on wood framing, then you should be much more concerned.
R
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wrote:

RicodJour:
Yes I am slab on grade. Thanks for the schluter reference I will check into it I used their trim products before did not know they have such an extensive product offerings. My shower area is about five by seven feet in size, with the shower heads on the two five foot long wall, a shower door needs to be on the seven foot opening. I was hoping I can just use a floor to ceiling piece of glass half about 4 feet side and left the other side open.
Thanks,
MC
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