no housewrap...

Page 2 of 3  
It only takes common sense to understand that housewrap will restrict airflow to the substance it surrounds. Put your hands in your pockets when the cold wind blows and see if your pants material will block the elements. Whether it blocks moisture who really cares, if you have that much moisture where it can soak the housewrap, you have much larger problems because you are probably in an area that is prone to flooding or hurricanes.
I would say that housewrap is less necessary in warmer climates. Spec-Home builders skimp on a lot of things to make more money and not wrapping is just another way, like using single pane windows or poorly rated appliances. I would never buy a completed spec home unless I knew the builder had a good reputation.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
(remove NS to use the address) 614.937.0463 voice 208.975.1011 fax
http://worthingtonengineering.com
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
In a properly built house water does not pass through the siding to the sheathing. Siding is constructed to have the water run off. Thousand, ten thousands, even millions of house shed water perfectly before tyveck was invented. Lots of house still don't use tyvek, and if you price a roll, you'll see why. Besides, carpenters often ruin the tyvek, even the sheathing, and never properly repair it, making the tyvek only partially effective in reducing air movement through the home. BTW, the purpose of tyvek is not to shed water (although it does), it is to reduce air flow without completely stopping the movement of gaseous water. I would prefer my house to be wrapped in tyvek, but if it isn't I would get too upset. No house built before ?1970? used tyvek.
Tarpaper works good as moisture barrier and was ok in air leaky shacks which allowed any accumulated humidity to be removed, but you wouldn't want to use it under the siding in a modern house because moisture would be trapped inside the walls.
Jeff Six wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

http://www.buildingscience.com/resources/walls/problems_with_housewraps.htm
http://www.buildingscience.com/resources/walls/drainage_planes.htm
http://www.buildingscience.com/resources/walls/siding_rainscreen_question.htm
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
3D Peruna wrote:

He has some points, but he is basically full of crap about the purpose of house wraps; house wraps are designed to limit air infiltration without eliminating movement of gaseous water. The purpose of the siding is to limit or eliminate water penetration to the structure. The very outer layer needs some ventilation and drainage to get rid of any water that does penetrate the siding. Whether a house has a housewrap or not, it needs to be constructed to limit water penetration past the siding. There are many houses that have stood for hundreds of years because they were constructed to reduce/eliminate moisture penetration without house wraps and calks. You construct a house the same way whether you use a house wrap or not.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

False.
If ten thousand people jump off a bridge, it doesn't make it right

the new issue of IBC will make it a requirement.

Poor construction practices (by some) is NEVER a reason to not install a material.

False, the tyvek is an air infiltration barrier and a secondary moisture barrier

No, they used building felt for the same purpose, but it wasn't as effective

False
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
(remove NS to use the address) 614.937.0463 voice 208.975.1011 fax
http://worthingtonengineering.com
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
> (remove NS to use the address) > 614.937.0463 voice > 208.975.1011 fax > > http://worthingtonengineering.com > >
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
(remove NS to use the address) 614.937.0463 voice 208.975.1011 fax
http://worthingtonengineering.com
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"P.Fritz" wrote:

What's false? What IS the purpose of the siding?

That doesn't make sense. Are you suggesting people shouldn't have built houses before Tyvek was invented?

Are you implying that Tyvek will be required by all local building codes?

No one said it was. Just stating a fact about poor construction.

And I didn't say that the purpose was an air infiltration barrier?

Oh? a poorly constructed or damaged moisture barrier on the inside of the wall and an effective moisture barrier on the outside of the wall wouldn't lead to moisture trapped in the wall?

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
> > > In a properly built house water does not pass through the siding to > > > the sheathing. > > > > False. > > What's false? What IS the purpose of the siding?
What is false is that a properly built house will not allow water to pass through the siding
> > > > > > Siding is constructed to have the water run off. > > > Thousand, ten thousands, even millions of house shed water perfectly > > > before tyveck was invented. > > > > If ten thousand people jump off a bridge, it doesn't make it right > > That doesn't make sense. Are you suggesting people shouldn't have > built houses before Tyvek was invented?
It makes sense, you just chose to ignore it.
> > > > > > Lots of house still don't use tyvek, and > > > if you price a roll, you'll see why. > > > > the new issue of IBC will make it a requirement. > > Are you implying that Tyvek will be required by all local building > codes?
THe existing code required building felt or other approved materials (i.e. tyvek) my understanding of the new code to be issued will require a tyvek type housewrap
> > > > > > Besides, carpenters often ruin > > > the tyvek, even the sheathing, and never properly repair it, making > > > the tyvek only partially effective in reducing air movement through > > > the home. > > > > Poor construction practices (by some) is NEVER a reason to not install a > > material. > > No one said it was. Just stating a fact about poor construction.
No, you were implying why not to use it.
> > > > > >BTW, the purpose of tyvek is not to shed water (although it > > > does), > > > > False, the tyvek is an air infiltration barrier and a secondary moisture > > barrier > > And I didn't say that the purpose was an air infiltration barrier?
Reading comprehension is not one of your strong points is it......what part of AND don't you understand
> > > > > >it is to reduce air flow without completely stopping the > > > movement of gaseous water. I would prefer my house to be wrapped in > > > tyvek, but if it isn't I would get too upset. No house built before > > > ?1970? used tyvek. > > > > No, they used building felt for the same purpose, but it wasn't as effective > > > > > > Tarpaper works good as moisture barrier and was ok in air leaky shacks > > > which allowed any accumulated humidity to be removed, but you wouldn't > > > want to use it under the siding in a modern house because moisture > > > would be trapped inside the walls. > > > > False > > Oh? a poorly constructed or damaged moisture barrier on the inside of > the wall and an effective moisture barrier on the outside of the wall > wouldn't lead to moisture trapped in the wall?
Building felt was never sealed, i.e. taped........vapor pressure was not trapped by it. It was a decent moisture barrier from the outside if properly lapped. therefore it was not a true moisture barrier from the inside.......you really don't know what you are talking about.
> > > > > > > > Jeff Six wrote: > > > > > > > > I have recently discovered that my house (I've been there a little > > > > over two years) does not have housewrap underneath the vinyl siding. > > > > Underneath is OSB sheathing and the vinyl is installed right on top of > > > > the OSB. This is true of all of the houses in my development. After > > > > looking around the newsgroups, I find the while housewraps are > > > > recommended, there appear to be tons of houses that have this same > > > > situation - vinyl siding installed directly over the wood/OSB > > > > sheathing. After some rain, I've popped the siding a little so I can > > > > see under and don't see any rain or moisture on the OSB. > > > > Nevertheless, the paranoid in me is concerned. > > > > > > > > I'm really looking for some reassurance here that this situation, > > > > while not the best in the world, is OK. Little help? Thanks.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I think you just like to argue so I selected just one part below to comment on.
Paul Fritz wrote:

If you put a moisture barrier on studs or over sheathing, overlaping the pieces by 6-12 inches, and then nail siding on, the moisture barrier will be sealed by the pressure of the siding against the studs or against the sheathing. T-11 siding will really seal it, but so will shiplap or any other real wood lap siding.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
> I think you just like to argue so I selected just one part below to > comment on. > > Paul Fritz wrote: > > > > > > > False > > > > > > Oh? a poorly constructed or damaged moisture barrier on the inside of > > > the wall and an effective moisture barrier on the outside of the wall > > > wouldn't lead to moisture trapped in the wall? > > > > Building felt was never sealed, i.e. taped........vapor pressure was not > > trapped by it. It was a decent moisture barrier from the outside if > > properly lapped. therefore it was not a true moisture barrier from the > > inside.......you really don't know what you are talking about. > > If you put a moisture barrier on studs or over sheathing, overlaping > the pieces by 6-12 inches, and then nail siding on, the moisture > barrier will be sealed by the pressure of the siding against the studs > or against the sheathing. T-11 siding will really seal it, but so > will shiplap or any other real wood lap siding
A. it will not be sealed, thus allowing water vapor to escape. Also, older homes were not sealed as well........poorer construction, leaky windows, doors etc, so building felt acting as a vapor barrier was not as critical as it is today. B. Tyvek is a superior product which is why the code is moving toward requiring it. Just as a ball point pen is superior to using an ink well.
You continue to show you don't have a clue to what you are talking about.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
(remove NS to use the address) 614.937.0463 voice 208.975.1011 fax
http://worthingtonengineering.com
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

And that's a good thing...I always recommend a weather barrier, weather housewrap or building paper, but each has appropriate uses. Housewrap cannot be a complete replacement for building paper.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 19 May 2004 06:33:26 GMT, someone wrote:

That's wrong. One of the very earliest basic tech classes from when I was in architecture school, stressed that the building paper (this was before Tyvek) was what really kept the water out of the house, and that the siding mainly protected the paper. Take as an example a brick veneer wall where the brick is the "siding". The brick is built a small distance away from the sheathing and there will be weeps at the base of the wall to let water out. The people who built tarpaper shacks knew which layer kept the water out - beter to skip the siding than the tarpaper!
The reason Tyvek was an advance is that it still deflected liquid water (like tar paper before it) but it let vapor pass out of the house and not condense and freeze inside the cavity (more important now that houses are better insulated).
-v.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
v wrote:

It's not wrong with regard to water impenetrable surfaces such as metal and plastic, and not wrong when applied to well painted wood siding, even unpainted shingle and shake siding. Sure, people used tarpaper to keep the water out, it was cheap compared to putting siding on. People skipped the siding because of poverty not because of something else. Everyone wants to argue about brick walls, but water seeps through brick, so you need drainage holes. Brick is great for long term wear, but the multitude of joints leads to water penetration, so construction needs be in accordance. Wooden shingles, for instance, shed water. Hell, I use to see light through small cracks in shingled roof of our house (no ceiling in the upper story) when I was little but rain and snow never penetrated. There was no tarpaper between the shingles and the wood structure. Heck, how old do you think tar paper is?

Sure is does those things, but the marketing is for reduction of air flow. Most houses that I see constructed without Tyvek do not have any kind of wrap and certainly tar paper is never used as a wrap. Small pieces of tar paper may be placed at strategic points around window and door openings and much of the sheating is water repellant, e.g., foil covered foam. But the plywood pannels used for strength are never covered with tar paper. Of course exterior plywood is used and the glues are water repellant. However, I don't see any treatment of the joints between pannels. If water penetrates the siding it will wet the sheathing, the frame, and the wall insulation.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
George,
What's your theory then on rotted out, molding, damaged, destroyed houses? There's a lot of 'em around...
P
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
3D Peruna wrote:

Most house are made of wood which just naturally rots. But poor construction, poor design, poor materials, etc. sure help it along. The point, however, is that many houses are still functional after 100 years and were designed and constructed to shed rain, snow, sleet, and hail when house wraps and house calks were unknown.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

You cannot build like they did yesterday and meet today's codes.
One of our buddy Joe's favorite lines is "...energy conservation has the potential to destroy more buildings than architects."
If we built like they built 100 years ago, I'd agree. But if you build to meet current energy codes with standard building materials using typical craftsmanship, you'll build a house that rots away in 10 years. Changes in the energy usage requirements have (and changes in building codes -- like the ones in Minnesota) mandate a change in the way buildings are constructed if you want them to last 100 years.
Those changes require managing moisture from the interior and the exterior. If you assume things are going to get wet, then provide a way for them to dry out. Housewraps and building felt (which isn't inferior to housewraps in many applications, in fact, it's better in several) are one of the pieces in the water management system of a building.
Personally, I'm looking towards different materials and methods...and I'm not an environmentalist nut, either. I try and design buildings that will last 100 years AND are affordable to build AND look good. As part of that design, I use building paper and housewrap, carefully considering what is appropriate for each situation.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.