Neighbors fence on my property.

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wrote:

I forgot to make my point, which was that just as your mother's neighbor got ticked off because your mother was a better landscaper, this woman got ticked off because my friend got remarried first (and she's still not afaik. )

In this case, the guy did try. The woman is literally crazy, sees things that aren't there, and she mistreated his mother terribly, probably because she had some grudge against her own mother (and father), who she hadn't talked to for 8 years, since she married my friend. She told her 2-year old child that her grandparents were dead, and never told the kid about the aunt. Her parents, or one of them, may have mistreated her, but my friend, her husband's mother didn't.

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On Tue, 1 Oct 2013 12:42:12 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@go-concepts.com wrote:

Wow! A whole six inches?

Let me get this straight... You have known about this for seven year, now he as pissed you off for something totally unrelated, so to get back at him you want to force him to move the fence. Does that sum it up?

You can ask a court to "make him".

He can ask a court to make you replace it.
Or you can pretend that he nor the fence is a problem. It's better for your sanity and maybe you car's tires. ...but it's your choice.
Me? I try like hell to not stir up hornets' nests and let dogs sleep.
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On Wednesday, October 2, 2013 5:11:50 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

6 inches wasn't anything to really worry about. However, this neighbor ha s been nothing but a pain in the behind. Last year he tried to claim 2 fee t of our yard because a next-door neighbor was putting up a fence. He hire d a company to survey the property which clearly shows the fence is on my p roperty. Now he is blowing his yard waste through the fence and into my ya rd along with any sticks/branches that fall from his trees over the fence i nto my yard. We had planned on ignoring the 6 inches but now I want him to move the fence in accordance with city ordnance of 6 inches inside the pro perty line.

tated, "Mr. Howard I would appreciate it if you did not blow your yard wast e into my yard." He became very belligerent and hostile, accused me of hav ing an unkempt yard and kept calling me sweetheart. He said "There's nothi ng you can do to stop me sweetheart." Sorry but that just sounds like a ch allenge to me and I've had enough of his condescending ways towards women.

There may be no need to ask a court to make him do anything. For example cites were cited here for states where if a neighbor puts up a fence on your property, you just need to give him some notice and if the fence isn't removed, you can tear it down. And I'd say that is one of the more lib states. In others, if it's on your property and you tear it down, well that's your right.

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On Thu, 3 Oct 2013 08:59:37 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

You'd better make DAMN sure it's really on your property. It's not unusual for surveys to be off several feet and each survey to show the area in question belonging to the respective property owners. When it gets down to inches, it gets dicey. A judge can settle the issue. *I* certainly wouldn't do it any other way. Then again, I wouldn't piss on a neighbor's Wheaties for a fence being 1-6 inches over the line.
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On Thursday, October 3, 2013 1:09:14 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

hat 6 inches wasn't anything to really worry about. However, this neighbor has been nothing but a pain in the behind. Last year he tried to claim 2 feet of our yard because a next-door neighbor was putting up a fence. He h ired a company to survey the property which clearly shows the fence is on m y property. Now he is blowing his yard waste through the fence and into my yard along with any sticks/branches that fall from his trees over the fenc e into my yard. We had planned on ignoring the 6 inches but now I want him to move the fence in accordance with city ordnance of 6 inches inside the property line.

y stated, "Mr. Howard I would appreciate it if you did not blow your yard w aste into my yard." He became very belligerent and hostile, accused me of having an unkempt yard and kept calling me sweetheart. He said "There's no thing you can do to stop me sweetheart." Sorry but that just sounds like a challenge to me and I've had enough of his condescending ways towards wome n.

The situation is a little different when the neighbor has been a hostile jerk for the past 7 years. If you do nothing, how about if he makes an adverse possession claim? The neighbor already had his own survey done a year ago that showed the fence is on the wrong property. I'd hire another surveyor to survey my lot and if his line agrees, that's pretty compelling to me.
As for getting a judge's order to take it down, I'd evaluate what that is going to cost versus what the neighbor is going to get if I tear it down and he sues me and it's later determined that I was wrong. If it's proven I was wrong, but I have also put up a nice new fence of my own to replace his, I would think the neighbor would probably get close to zippo. There is a brand new fence there that serves the same purpose, so what exactly are his real damages? And if I tore it down and put up nothing, then he'd get the depreciated value of an old fence, which probably isn't much, depending on what kind of fence, how old, how long, etc. So, you have the sure thing of paying a whole lot in legal fees to go to court vs just the possibility that you might have to pay some amount for the cost of the fence you tore down.
I would agree that I'd consult a local lawyer first, but I doubt going to court over this before tearing it down is necessary or cost effective.
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On Sun, 6 Oct 2013 07:21:35 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

It's going to be tough to make that clam and so what if he does. It's 1-6" fer chrissakes!

It sure wouldn't be worth it for me but small claims isn't that big of a deal. It's only a frigin' couple of inches! If the neighbor is such an ass, I certainly wouldn't even tempt him to sue me.

The cost of the fence, to move it A COUPLE OF FRIGGIN' INCHES. Good grief!

I certainly wouldn't go to court or set myself up to be taken to court over of A COUPLE FRIGGIN' INCHES. ...particularly when he's made it clear the issue isn't the fence, rather, being dissed by the neighbor.
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snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

How come OP did not raise this issue when he mveod in telling the neighbor? Did the neighbor put up the fence or he moved in after the fence was in place? Listening to one side story, the neighbor seems a jerk. If he is not nice to you, you don't need to be nice either. Give him as much hard time as you can but at his cost not yours.
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wrote:

That sounds like the perfect recipe for a neighborhood war. No thanks! Not only is it childish but it can escalate into serious property damage or violence. If the neighbor insists on being a jerk, do what you can to avoid the problem but don't make it worse.
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On Sunday, October 6, 2013 8:01:40 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

t that 6 inches wasn't anything to really worry about. However, this neigh bor has been nothing but a pain in the behind. Last year he tried to claim 2 feet of our yard because a next-door neighbor was putting up a fence. H e hired a company to survey the property which clearly shows the fence is o n my property. Now he is blowing his yard waste through the fence and into my yard along with any sticks/branches that fall from his trees over the f ence into my yard. We had planned on ignoring the 6 inches but now I want him to move the fence in accordance with city ordnance of 6 inches inside t he property line.

tely stated, "Mr. Howard I would appreciate it if you did not blow your yar d waste into my yard." He became very belligerent and hostile, accused me of having an unkempt yard and kept calling me sweetheart. He said "There's nothing you can do to stop me sweetheart." Sorry but that just sounds lik e a challenge to me and I've had enough of his condescending ways towards w omen.

1" I agree. But if it's 6" it's not hard to make the claim. You have one surveyor who already apparently showed that the fence is on the wrong property. If you hire your own surveyor, he will give you a survey that shows the fence on it and which property it's on. He'll leave pins in the ground at the property corners. With a string and a camera you take pics. If the area is long, winding, or has other issues, then I agree, it could be more difficult. But for a typical straight backyard fence, if it's off by 6" it should be easy to prove.

I don't believe you can take such a case to small claims, at least not to force the neighbor to take down a fence. Small claims court is generally limited to monetary judgements and maybe the return of some personal property, that kind of thing. They typically can't order someone to do something. If you wanted to try it, you'd have to first determine if small claims is the right venue.

The point is that if I put up a nice new fence on my own property that replaced an old crappy fence, the "damage" the neighbor has suffered, even if it's later determined that I was wrong, is questionable. The purpose of a fence is to separate the properties. There is one there now that's better than the old one. So, even if I tore an old one down by mistake that was just on his side of the property and replaced it with one of my own that is on my side, it's not clear to me that the neighbor has suffered real, measurable damage.
And it's probably not the cost of just moving anything, because I tend to doubt a neighbor taking down an old fence that's on his property is going to do it in such a fashion as to save it, keep the fence, etc. The old fence would probably be in the dump. As I see it, if I was wrong, but did it based on a survey, reasonable evidence that lead me to believe the fence was on my property, etc, the most the neighbor would get is the depreciated value of his old fence. If it's 15 years old, cost $2000 new, maybe he gets $500.

An inch, I would agree. Some of it is 6" over though. We don't know how much of it is off by 1 vs 6. And if the neighbor is a hostile AH, you're OK with letting them establish a possible legitimate claim for adverse possession, by you doing nothing? Or as time goes on, the neighbor puts in trees, shrubs, etc that then make it even more difficult of a problem for you to reclaim your land?
If it was a neighbor you got along with, that would be a different story.
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In NYC, if a fence is on the neighbor's property, one has to file in civil court. You must have a survey, and the survey must have been done within three months of the case filing.
Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
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...snip...

That may indeed be the case, but what does that accomplish? It accomplishes no fence. The OP wants the neighbor to move the fence off of his property. I doubt he wants the fence torn down.
If he exercises his legal right to remove the fence himself but he still wants a fence, he is then left to pay for his own fence. 'Twere it me, I'd fight tooth and nail to get the fence moved legally.
Of course, if the OP wins and the neighbor choses to tear the fence down and not rebuild, either out of spite or because he just doesn't care whether he has a fence or not, then the OP would have to put up his own fence, but at least he'd get his property back. Is that worth it? Only the OP can say for sure.
However, what if the existing fence is grandfathered in and under today's code a new fence cannot be built? The OP wins his legal battle, the neighbor removes the fence but decides not to rebuild it, even if he is grandfathered.
Now the OP has his 6" back, but he has no fence, which might suck big time. I would certainly like to know the zoning situation before I tore down a fence that I might not be able to put back up.
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On Thu, 3 Oct 2013 17:39:38 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03

And without a fence, he'll be able to do a better job of blowing things onto the OP's lawn. Progress, that's what it's about.

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On Thu, 3 Oct 2013 08:59:37 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

that's a very dangerous approach. Until you look up and get familiar with the case law, taking precipitous action based on a personal interpretation of what's written in the statues is a good way to wind up losing your shirt. And you'd be well advised to consult an attorney also, who most likely would advise you that your first step should be to send a certified letter to the neighbor outlining your position and plans.

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On Thursday, October 3, 2013 7:50:26 PM UTC-4, Ashton Crusher wrote:

hat 6 inches wasn't anything to really worry about. However, this neighbor has been nothing but a pain in the behind. Last year he tried to claim 2 feet of our yard because a next-door neighbor was putting up a fence. He h ired a company to survey the property which clearly shows the fence is on m y property. Now he is blowing his yard waste through the fence and into my yard along with any sticks/branches that fall from his trees over the fenc e into my yard. We had planned on ignoring the 6 inches but now I want him to move the fence in accordance with city ordnance of 6 inches inside the property line.

y stated, "Mr. Howard I would appreciate it if you did not blow your yard w aste into my yard." He became very belligerent and hostile, accused me of having an unkempt yard and kept calling me sweetheart. He said "There's no thing you can do to stop me sweetheart." Sorry but that just sounds like a challenge to me and I've had enough of his condescending ways towards wome n.

What's a dangerous approach? I didn't tell anyone to take any precipitous action. I only said that I've seen statutes in some states that spell out the process to be followed if a fence is placed on your property by someone else and that process doesn't include going to court first to get an order.
And please explain to us, exactly how you "lose your shirt" by tearing down a neighbor's fence, even if it's later proven it was not on your property? In this case, the neighbor already had a survey done that shows it's on the wrong property. Let's say the OP gets another survey, that shows the same thing. He tears it down. What's the neighbor going to do? Spend thousands suing him over a case the neighbor *might* win? Yeah, he might do that. And if he by some miracle he wins, what exactly are his damages? The depreciated cost of an old fence. If it's a typical 15 year old 50 ft backyard fence, that is hardly going to be "losing your shirt". If it's a brand new 1000 ft designer fence, well then it could be a lot.
And you'd be well advised to consult an

Consulting a local attorney to discuss the options is a good idea.
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That's at least twice you have mentioned damages. And its a good point.
Anybody can sue anybody over almost anything but it is pointless if they can't show damages. And having one's feelings hurt isn't damage. (Oh, I suppose it could be if someone was borderline psycho and got bumped over the line but it would be pretty hard to prove the bump).
--

dadiOH
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On Sun, 6 Oct 2013 07:38:05 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

Taking action that potentially is destroying someone else's property because you think you understand what the statue SAYS and assuming what it says is what it MEANS. And also assuming that CASE LAW has not changed what seems like it's clear meeting to something else entirely.

Yup, it might look to the layperson that it's all just black and white. Yet there could have been dozens of others that have gone down that road before you and the result of their court cases could be that what you THINK it says is not how the courts have interpreted it. So it would be very foolish to take action in this day and age without spending $50 to consult an attorney.

I didn't say you would, I said you might. I don't know all the possibilities. Is it really on the wrong property? Will a court agree with you when you are sued? Are you prepared to pay the other parties court costs if you lose? Will tearing down the fence possibly result in their house being burglarized due to the lack of the fence? In this case, the

Was the survey done and stamped as a LEGAL BOUNDARY survey or just a "we'll be pretty close survey" so you can feel comfortable that the house is pretty much at least 6 feet from the property line? Were all monuments found and if not were any missing ones relocated from proper reference points?
Let's say the OP gets another survey,

Same question about the type of survey. It's entirely possible both survey's you seem to value so highly would have both been "preliminary" type surveys relying on the same relatively easy to find reference points, such as a water pipe, but not true original reference points of pipes placed in 4 feet of concrete that are perhaps a mile or two away.
Spend thousands suing him over a case the

No one will stop you if you are in that situation and you elect to be stupid and tear down a fence without consulting an attorney or even notifying and discussing it will the other property owner. The advice was being offered to someone who asked for opinions and that's mine - consult an attorney before doing something STUPID like thinking you know the ins and outs of the statue and case law on this.

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On Monday, October 7, 2013 3:47:52 AM UTC-4, Ashton Crusher wrote:

t that 6 inches wasn't anything to really worry about. However, this neigh bor has been nothing but a pain in the behind. Last year he tried to claim 2 feet of our yard because a next-door neighbor was putting up a fence. H e hired a company to survey the property which clearly shows the fence is o n my property. Now he is blowing his yard waste through the fence and into my yard along with any sticks/branches that fall from his trees over the f ence into my yard. We had planned on ignoring the 6 inches but now I want him to move the fence in accordance with city ordnance of 6 inches inside t he property line.

tely stated, "Mr. Howard I would appreciate it if you did not blow your yar d waste into my yard." He became very belligerent and hostile, accused me of having an unkempt yard and kept calling me sweetheart. He said "There's nothing you can do to stop me sweetheart." Sorry but that just sounds lik e a challenge to me and I've had enough of his condescending ways towards w omen.

Neither I nor anyone else state or suggested that approach.

I'll bet it's going to cost a lot more than $50. A typical attorney isn't going to know all the case law on fences, unless you happen to get lucky and find just the right guy. Hell, I've seen attorneys here screw up real estate closings. You know what they say about advice being only as good as what you pay for. Typical lawyer is going to give you some general advice, tell you they'll write a letter, look into it, etc. Then they turn it over to their paralegal and the billing clock starts running.
But I also said it would be a good idea to get an opinion. Some lawyers will give you a free initial consulation, but again, you know what they say about free advice.

Since you're talking about losing your shirt, I thought it was a foregone conclusion that you're going to lose.
Are you prepared to pay the other

If they sue me for tearing down their 15 year old fence that cost $2000 when new, it's likely the case is going to small claims where the costs are $50. The neighbor would have to be pretty dumb to run up many thousands in trial attorney fees over "possible" recovery of a couple thousand bucks and they would be paying those fees if they lose. And in some cases, even if they win, they could paying some or all of those fees.
Will tearing down the fence possibly

Would seem that would be extremely unlikely to prove, unless the fence is part of an extensive security type fencing installation.

That's why I clearly said I'd hire my own surveyor to show where the fence is located.

Good grief. If you're going to get a survey to prove which property the fence is on, it would be extremely dumb not to explain that to the surveyor and that you want a survey that clearly shows where the fence is versus the property line. But I guess maybe that's what some people need to spend $500 to have a lawyer tell them.
It's entirely possible both

And again, I never offered advice to just tear the fence down based on the OP's reading or interpreting laws.
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two words, Mulching lawnmower
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On 10/3/2013 3:30 AM, Fat-Dumb and Happy wrote:

So simple and logical I'm surprised you thought of it first :o)
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On 10/01/2013 03:42 PM, snipped-for-privacy@go-concepts.com wrote:

I was in a similar situation.
Laws vary so the best advice I can give is to consult an attorney.
FWIW, here's how it worked in my case.
After a survey, my attorney sent a letter to my neighbor. The letter basically stated he had 6 months to move the fence.
After the 6 months expired and no action on the neighbors part, the lawyer gave the neighbor a second six month period and notified him that at the end of the second six months the fence would be moved at the neighbors expense.
Still no action from the neighbor so I was able to hire a contractor to move the fence.
Currently I'm out the $2500 cost of the attorney and $1000 to have the fence moved but I have a lien against the neighbors house so when he sells I'll get my money, plus interest.
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