Need help with RUUD electric furnace

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Hello group. Hopefully the HVAC guys are listening in. My folks bought a house last summer which has a RUUD AC and electric (non-heatpump) system. We noticed the house takes a LONG time to warm up (central Texas, not really cold) so we called AHS. They sent whoever they use, and the first guy said the sequencer was bad so he ordered one. That didn't change anything. Then he said the thermostat inside was bad so he changed that and told my folks it would really be better. The house still takes over two hours to increase five degrees (1500 sq foot house 42 degrees outside) So mom called the company and they sent the dad of the first guy. He opened it up and said "well, here is your problem, someone didn't wire it right. It needs two circuits and they only wired in one" Well she called me and told me this and I got on line and looked up the model number:
UBHC17J14SHH and according to the on line documentation it says it is a single circuit system. Does it sound like we are dealing with people who don't know what they are doing? Should we call a RUUD dealer and pay for a different service call? Could it possibly be missing something that is actually part of the heating unit? The heat coming from the vents is luke warm. I have never lived in a house with electric heater type furnace so don't know what is correct but would think the output would be greater than luke warm. I know the AC guys don't like AHC (American Home Shield) but we got it cause my folks are on a fixed income but at this point I am beginning to question the guys who have been out there..Just wanted to run this all by some more experienced folks and see if they think we should go thru an actual RUUD dealer to have it looked at. Thanks so much! John
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Electric strips are the worst method of heating in my opinion. I installed them in a remodel home I had in Phoenix. I installed the electric heat cause it was cheap and I figured I would never use it. Were the installed heat strips enough for the home? How many kw's do they pull? Turn on the heat and go look at the electric meter, should be spinning like a top. I would think that you should have something like 30-40 kw's of strip heat. Gonna cost a bloody fortune to run.
If the strips are pulling what they are supposed to pull then you need to find out where the heat is going. OR Change the speed on the blower for the winter months when heating is needed. Move the blower to medium or low speed. Slower speed will allow the air to heat more. Doubt that it will help the run time.
Your going to need a competent HVAC tech to diagnose the problem.
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wrote:

Electric heat, installed properly is perfectly fine heat. It is just expensive to run in many areas. Ive never seen 40KW's of heat in a residential home. That equates to 240 amps of electric service! Blower speeds dont just get changed like your underwear. On a heating and cooling setup, it switches automatically to the speed that was properly setup when the furnace was installed. It has to do with temperature rise. Too low a blower speed and the heat stays too hot and cycles/damages the limit controls. Too high a blower speed and it constantly feels cold in the home.
To the OP: If you are going to continue to use AHS then shut up and get the hell outta here. You are getting butt pumped by AHS and by the cheap hacks that they use. You dont need to have it checked by a "Ruud Dealer". You need it checked by a licensed competent heating contractor. Single circuit system doesnt mean a thing. You can have one single circuit from your main house panel to the furnace and still have up to 5 or so circuits in the furnace all running off of one, two or three sequencers. You need to stop with the cheap and find a good service company. Bubba
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'To the OP: If you are going to continue to use AHS then shut up and get the hell outta here. You are getting butt pumped by AHS and by the cheap hacks that they use.'
Please excuse this bad attitude HVAC serviceman ; not all in the trade are like this obnoxious filthy mouthed person. But, alot of them are im afraid.
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On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 17:37:19 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (Dave in Lake Villa) wrote:

And you DAvey boy are the laughing stock of the industry. Everyone knows it. Your advice is so bad its deadly. Go away davey. Nobody wants your advice you looney hack. Bubba
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Well Dave couldn`t reform alt Hvac so he is trying his preaching here.
Got a lisence yet Dave
Post your numbers on no VS DC payback please. And your corvette goes rumpity rump rumpity rump rumpity rump. Kids must love it.
SHUT UP DAVE
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'And you DAvey boy are the laughing stock of the industry. Everyone knows it. Your advice is so bad its deadly. Go away davey. Nobody wants your advice you looney hack. Bubba '
ME: You (and your commrades) have had countless people in this NG and in ALt.HVAC tell you that your attitude is very bad, that you have a superiority complex, and that you are obnoxious in the way you tell HO's to 'F off' and thru other forms of degrading vile talk .How come you dont see the importance of relating to HO's out of politeness and charity instead of leaving them with a worse opinion of our Trade ? If you cant promote the hvac trade in a positive manner, then, you shouldnt be in it nor dealing with the public in anyway. Lastly, the advice i give (for some reason) , makes you feel insecure with the way you respond ; theres no need to feel insecure and think you know it all Bubba . Nor does trying to demean a fellow HVAC Tech cause you feel insecure. Its all very uneccesary. Please dont do this anymore Bubba, and, remember to act professional with HO's from now on. Many thanks. Dave
(God bless).
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On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 07:51:58 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (HVAC fella) wrote:

God bless doesnt cut it with me. You are still a hack and always be a hack. Your advice is stupid, sucks and will most likely get someone hurt. Now..............Blow Me you idiot Dave. Bubba
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'I would think that you should have something like 30-40 kw's of strip heat. Gonna cost a bloody fortune to run.'
NOT in a 1500 sq.ft home ! Youd find 40 kw electric furnaces in a 3300 sq. ft home. According to the RUUD model number she posted , its a 14 kw. unit.
'Change the speed on the blower for the winter months when heating is needed. Move the blower to medium or low speed. Slower speed will allow the air to heat more. Doubt that it will help the run time.'
Bad advice ! On the RUUD/RHEEM electric furnace, they require alot of airflow for heating . It should be set up where it gives an approx. 45-50 f rise thru the furnace...which in my experience...nearly all the time requires high speed year round. Ive seen too many electric heat failures with lowering the blower speed...especially with HO's forgetting to change the air filter often.
'Your going to need a competent HVAC tech to diagnose the problem.''
Bingo.
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Kinda leaves you out, huh Dave?
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deviate dave would be soooo far out in left field on this one, he's in the parking lot wondering where he parked his lil kiddy kar korvete
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Electric is the worst way to heat?? Not if you pay 2.6 cents a KW!!
30-40 KW of strip heat, in a 1500 square foot home in Texas?? Are you crazy? 10 KW would probably be plenty. Heck, here in ND we put maybe 15 KW in a home that size! Greg
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Greg where can you get 2.6 Kwh in the US, im running an extension cord there. I pay 12.5 Kwh
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Cass County Electric, off peak rates, in the area of Fargo ND. http://www.kwh.com / This is a "off peak" rate. For those that don't know what that is, you need to sources of heat, for example, electric boiler with a oil or gas fired boiler. Electric resistance heat, with oil or gas forced air backup. You agree that you will let the utility shut off your electric heat when ever they want to, hence the second source of heat required to take over when that happens. The utility may shut your electric heat off for days! You can hook up both water heaters and heat for your home. The rates for general use electric for the home is at a much higher rate, but still much cheaper than your 12.5! IIRC about 8 cents per KW. Greg
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I would absolutely call someone who knows what they are doing. If the Rudd has a wire diagram in the electrical box or in the literature, then any competent repair person should be able to diagnose the problem and repair the unit.
As to cost of operation, Natural Gas in our area has increased so much that there is $27 difference between a 90% furnace and baseboard heat to satisfy my heating requirements. The old saying that electric heat is expensive is no longer true! Its all based upon what the cost of a Therm is for each type of heat and efficiency of unit. Baseboard heat is cheaper than an 80% furnace now where we live. So, don't rip out anything until you prove what is the best thing for your parents. Right now its getting someone in there that knows what their doing!
Rich
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Hello guys and thanks for your input. Yeah I know we need to get someone in there but at this point not sure who first. They surely cannot afford to change out any equipment (sure wish it were heat pump and gas isn't an option) so gonna have to figure out how to make it right. I guess the first thing is they need to find out what size wire the run from the breaker panel is. Looking at the RUUD literature it looks like depending on the distance for a single circuit it needs to be a 4 or a 6. That seems awfully large. Mom said the wire is about double the size of the other wiring in there but she cannot see any writing on it so I told her to leave it till we can get more information or a RUUD guy out there. But my guess is the RUUD guy is gonna say " call an electrician" and then we will have to call the RUUD guy back again..But guess we need to get it right. I find it amazing the unit has been able to keep the house warm (albeit slow) with only working on half the strips.. Thanks! John
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'UBHC17J14SHH and according to the on line documentation it says it is a single circuit system. Does it sound like we are dealing with people who don't know what they are doing? Should we call a RUUD dealer and pay for a different service call? '
Yes, its best to use a RUUD/RHEEM dealer.
' The heat coming from the vents is luke warm. I have never lived in a house with electric heater type furnace so don't know what is correct but would think the output would be greater than luke warm.'
You should be getting close to a 45-50 f. rise thru the furnace if its working correctly...after approx. 2 minutes of it running which gives the furnace enough time to stage on the elements ; (that is, the temperature of the air coming out of a nearby register versus the air going into the furnace (return). ).
'I know the AC guys don't like AHC (American Home Shield) '
These Warranty Companies are wrought with problems ; usually, they send people out who havent a clue what theyre doing. Call a RUUD/RHEEM dealer. Ive put in about 15-20 of these RHEEM Electric Furnaces and ive had problems with a few of them within one year of installation. Usually the sequencers or the limit switch(s). I like the stainless steel heating elements wrapped around the inside of the blower housing though -- better than the cheap nickel chromium wire looped back and forth like a giant toaster.
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This is Turtle.
Hey Davey , i like that statement about liking the Stainless Steel electric heating elements wrapped around in side the blower housing. Davey i did not know that they were stainless steel elements and not straight enduction heat elements. Did you special order them with stainless steel elements in them ?
TURTLE
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'Hey Davey , i like that statement about liking the Stainless Steel electric heating elements wrapped around in side the blower housing. Davey i did not know that they were stainless steel elements and not straight enduction heat elements. Did you special order them with stainless steel elements in them ? TURTLE'
Turtle, They are stainless steel from the Factory and the Rheem Electric Furnace brochure says explicitly that they are Stainless Steel for greater longevity. You can call me Davey, but i prefer Dave. (Im enjoying the exchange over in Alt. Hvac -- i think you might be winning :)
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