Lost track of receptacle wires (DIA) & no rear push in on replacement plug

[bent]

I am changing a chipped 110V power receptacle in the kitchen. I thought I spread apart and left the wires apart demonstrating the original configuration. There are a total of 6 wires run through this receptacle box: 2 white, 2 black, 1 red, and 1 bare. That is one more than 2 left, 2 right and 1 ground When I put it back together, I had to screw the "sixth" wire (blk) to one of the side screws along with another wire, because the new (clean, unchipped) replacement receptacle didn't have the push-in connector on the back like the chipped original . I plugged it in, and the 15A fuse vaporized on the inside of it's glass. The 6 solid color, solid conductor red, white, black and bare wires were originally installed by an electrician. I could investigate further details about which individual colored wires are sheathed together, where they are going to/from, or what else specifically is on the circuit, fluorescent light or whatever. I also have a two prong lighting circuit tester to check whats hot and not. So...

Note that these std. receptacles have a copper conductor plate that connects the similar conductors of the top and bottom plugs together. As it was broken apart on the original chipped plug I fatigued and split it apart on the replacement. That was on the short prong, or right side. I must still believe that the problem must have been with where I put the sixth wire. I think I probably had the wires where they were before, and I should just try putting the sixth wire on the other side (ther longer prong/ left side: the unbroken conductor plate)

So the way I left it and the way I tried to re-wire the new plug was like this. Viewd from front

white( | i) white (6th blk. wire blew fuse here) ^ broken plate oblack (sixth wire) blk ( | i) red ^ L bare (ground)

Q> Where does the sixth black wire go? In all the confusion I forgot where the sixth (black) wire was. I think it was on the top. If the other wiring is correct, and I believe it is, then I have tried one of three possible positions, plus ground. Remember the right side/ short blade conductor plate is /broken. My first (only) choice is to try the other, unbroken side. The vaporized fuse scared me, and the HD guy said my other wires are wrong.

Q>Is the wiring correct, or obviously messed up.

btw Is there a place to post a pic for this ng such as rec.woodworking has a.b.p.w?

[Toller]

I try to take a digital photo before I undo anything; maybe next time.

It is impossible to know what you have from here. You have a switched outlet, but the wiring could be many different things.

1) Do you have more than one switched outlet? 2) Look at the switch. What wires are there?

With answers to that I can tell you how to wire the outlet. It is also possible, though unlikely, that there is no switch but the outlet is wired to a multiwire circuit. And there is an even smaller possibility that you have both a switch and a multiwire circuit. And finally, you should have two bare wires; sure there isn't another one somewhere?

[Mark Lloyd]

[snip]

The OP mentioned a fuse, suggesting older wiring. Maybe only a few outlets have ground.

[bent]

sorry.

there are two lines coming in. Contained in each:

1) blk/white/bare 2) blk/white/red/bare

and the single bare is a short wire from the screw in the rear where the (two above noted) bare wires are screwed down together.

There is no switching afffecting this receptacle.

[bent]

the only fuse is the main fuse in the fuse box

[bent]

I believe I left the wires in the same locations as the 5 screws (2 left, 2 right, 1 ground). Then I found out the replacement plug didn't have rear plug-in. I have since forgotten which ofg the four plug-ins in was. I tried one, and of the other three: two are low (I think it was high). That leaves the other side high. Does this correspond to the screw on the side. On this side the connector plate is not broken.

Q>Can you tell me this:? The four plug-ins must correspond to the four screws, right. either that, or ground. There can't be anything else, right. It couldn't be ground, and it couldn't be a magical combination.

[bent]

"bent" wrote

there may be a small fluorescent light (with its own on/off button) on it, but there is no wall switch or another other switched light

[bent]

Yes, there is

"bent" wrote

[Toller]

Okay, it probably a multiwire circuit. That is the only other possibility if there is no switch. They are sometimes used in kitchens so you can plug two coffee pots into the same outlet without blowing a fuse. You have broken the connector between the brass colored terminals, but not the one between the steel colored terminals; right? There should be two fuses on this; did you blow one fuse or two? If only one, then one circuit should still be live; be careful! (I had a little trouble reading your original post, but if you touched the black wire to the red wire in the line cable it would blow the fuse, as would touching the red or black wires to the white wires.)

You want to attach both black wires to one brass colored terminal, and the red wire to the other brass colored terminal. Attach the white wires to the steel colored terminals. Attach the bare wire to the green terminal, or if there is no green terminal, to the one at the bottom.

To do this properly you could get an outlet that can accept more than one wire, since attaching two to a single terminal is improper. However, if you have a wire nut and some wire you can attach a short piece of wire to both black wires and then put the other end of the wire on the terminal.

[Wayne Whitney]

First, you need to learn what the functions of all the wires are before you start doing your own electrical work. You also need to understand how this receptacle fits into the circuit(s) powering it, i.e. where the cables leaving the box terminate.

With those caveats, here's a quick response: Bare = Equipment Ground, White = Neutral, Black = Hot, and Red = "Other Hot". Red could be the opposite phase of a multiwire branch circuit, or red could be the switched hot of a switched circuit.

The large prong on the receptacle is the neutral, and only white wires connect there. So you definitely have a dead short in the above diagram, the whites should all be on the side of the large prong, and the blacks and red should all be on the side of the small prong.

As to the arrangement of the two blacks and red on the small prong side, that can only be determined by knowing what the function of the different cables is. One can guess, though, that the cable with both black and red is incoming power. Then these two hots go to opposite halves of the duplex receptacle (top and bottom in your drawing), and the interconnection plate needs to be removed (as you have already done). As to the remaining black wire, it is a toss-up as to which half of the duplex receptacle it is to be attached to. But this is all speculation.

Cheers, Wayne

[bent]

all please hang in there for another day or so. When I get a half hour I'm going to investigate further and sketch a new DIA with W1 & W2, B1 & B2, R 1 or 2, G1 & G2 etc.

[Mark Lloyd]

Much of my teenage years were spent in a house built in 1969 which was like that. Apparently, smaller breakers were in common use before larger ones.

Such a house is still old enough that not everything is grounded.

[spam snipped]

[Chip C]

[Wayne Whitney]

Why do you say that a split-duplex receptacle on a multi-wire branch circuit is no longer code in the US? I'm not aware of that.

Under the NEC, this is required for the neutral (grounded conductor) on multi-wire branch circuits, but not for the hot (phase) conductors. Many, of course, consider this good workmanship for all connections to a receptacle.

Cheers, Wayne

[Chip C]

I believe it's no longer code in *kitchens* in the US, where 20A GFCIs are now required..sorry, I should have worded that better.

Aha, that makes sense, since loss of the hot path renders downstream outlets safe, loss of the neutral renders them apparently dead but still very dangerous.

However, I'll bet it's un-code to put two wires under one screw, and with a split duplex, you've only got one screw per hot leg, so I think that adds up to pigtails on whichever leg the OP uses to feed the downstream circuit.

Are pigtails needed for the bare (ground-ING) conductor? Or is it good enough to trap them all under the box screw?

Many thanks,

Chip C Toronto

[Wayne Whitney]

Split circuit (multi-wire branch circuit) receptacles can still be installed in a kitchen under the NEC, if you use a douple pole GFCI breaker on the circuit.

This is true for side-screw only receptacles, but back-plate receptacles (not back-stab) that I have seen accept two wires per plate, in addition to the side screws.

Well, there is only a box screw if you use a metal box. :-) My gut reaction is that the grounding screw on a metal box can have only one wire under it. So a wirenut will be required for the EGC.

Cheers, Wayne