Looking for facts about fires caused by compact florescent bulbs

clot wrote: ...

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Again, the inorganic Hg isn't the issue--the problem is, it doesn't stay that way in the environment always -- it gets methylated which is how it hurts.

Don't know about in the UK specifically, but the current technology in place in the US is estimated to capture only a little over a third of total estimated emissions. This will go up as more wet scrubbers come on line and as other control/abatement technology techniques are implemented.

It's a very complicated area as higher levels of Hg capture are observed for bituminous coal-fired plants as compared to low-rank coal-fired plants, Hg capture varies drastically across existing plants, higher levels of Hg capture are observed in fabric filters (FF) compared to electrostatic precipitators (ESPs), and a significant capture of Hg2+ in wet SO2 scrubbers.

As just one example, the above observation about bituminous coal compared to the low-rank coals is owing in large part to the increased Cl content of the bituminous coals which tend to produce Hg(2+) compounds which are much more amenable to adsorption in ESPs than Hg(0) compounds.

(Spent about 30 years working w/ electric utilities, about the last 20 w/ fossil...)

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Reply to
dpb
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote: ...

Absolute and utter bullshit.

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Reply to
dpb

I have indeed but I'm not certain how much to believe. I'm sure there's truth in it - but how much?

Reply to
clot

Really? Tell me why you think it's bullshit. It's either because you don't think such things could happen here, or because of other information you have.

Which is it?

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

Enough that several states brought lawsuits against (have to review articles but...) the EPA and/or some of the midwest utilities who continue to spew crap in our direction.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

A water utility that I used work for (not quite 30 years but close) has recently installed improved treatment facilities at an incinerator to pull the mercury out of the scrubber liqour sent back to the sewage works for treatment. From recollection this has reduced the mercury load to the sewage works by 75% and improved the effluent quality.

Problem is that the concentration of heavy metals in the ash is insufficient to warrant recovery - where does the sludge go - a hazardous landfill site! The amount will reduce over time since this recycle was the main source of mercury.

Reply to
clot

Wouldn't be my first choice solution, no...

I'd have thought the Al can might be a little higher than that but it's still comparatively inconvenient for many places where high numbers are used outdoors which contributes largely to that I suspect...

I remember but can't even think now whether it was actually Han Solo or not??? But, more like whichever one it was (Goldfinger, maybe?) where the bad guy got dropped into the molten metal is what I think of...

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Reply to
dpb

20-something years w/ the fossil-generation business...

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Reply to
dpb

Sorry, but that's not enough information to prove that what I said is bullshit.

More, please. What was your function in the business?

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

Intuitively, though it would seem to be the other way, to me. Most of the outside places where one uses Al cans (except outside a home, where there would be no real difference with inside) would seem to be places like beaches, pools, maybe a forest or woods where it wouldn't be too hard for the municipality or owner to set up recycling disposal areas right next to waste disposal cans. Maybe I am wrong.

Either way the family gets a really nice paperweight in rememberance(g).

Reply to
Kurt Ullman

Sorry, that's not enough information to prove that your allegations have any basis in fact.

But, roughly 15 years initially as engineer/senior engineer w/ major manufacturer/vendor, last 20+ as consulting engineer working mostly w/ fossil utilities, specializing in instrumentation and controls including for monitoring pulverized coal flow for eventual finer control at the individual burner to improve heat rate and lower NOx and other emissions, designing many test programs for evaluating boiler performance for NOx and other compliance, serving on design/review/ recommendation panels on best use of (always limited) capital expenditure funds for "best bang for the buck" selection of which technology/vendor for which plant at what point in time...the list could go on ad nauseum...

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Reply to
dpb

Because of discussions like this, I wish I had a notepad next to me every single time I read something on paper, because I never know when I'll run into someone who needs a cite. I guess you missed some of what I've read about utilities claiming it would be financially unfeasible for them to clean up their emissions to modern standards.

Your job description also means you were never responsible for providing assignments to lobbyists.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

I suppose if they were to set up recycling collection points there they might get some response. I was simply commenting on what is current practice at most places where there are simply trash containers that rarely, if ever, are recycled so my hypothesis is the overall percentages are lowered significantly because for those to be recycled they would have to be toted back home which most don't/won't do except for the pack-it-in, pack-it-out wilderness areas which are a minute fraction in terms of numbers. Hence, the inconvenience factor...

Reply to
dpb

The last statement is completely different than the allegation of buying appointees. And, it definitely is true that it's financially unfeasible (and sometimes even technically infeasible as well) to retrofit all old plants to current regulations. Would you pay to update your Ford Pinto to meet current emission and other DOT standards and think that a reasonable thing to do? Many of these plants are of an equivalent age or even older, if your unaware of that fact.

I have even no clue as to what your meaning is in the above babblespeak...

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Reply to
dpb

I'll try answering that last sentence with a question: Do you know what industry lobbyists do? What is the reason for their existence?

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

What does that have to do with anything you raised before? Lobbyists are a part of the legislative process and are at least as well funded by the environmental side of the issues as the utilities. Their existence (on both sides) is a prime way in which legislators learn about the issues that affect their constituents and that is their function. That is a useful and necessary function, again on both sides.

You have addressed none of the actual points you raised in the least. If you want to discuss particulars of a particular event or decision or technology or power plant, I'll be glad to participate. If you want to simply continue to throw unsubstantiated allegations, not so much...

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Reply to
dpb

Two words: pollution credits

Who do you think dreamt up that cockamamie idea, and what motivated them to do so?

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

A. A whole group of people, some actually on the "green" side... B. Economics and pragmatism of how to actually make progress towards achieving something both sides want.

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Reply to
dpb

What one side wants, in some cases, is to do nothing.

It's not good to blindly worship an industry because you worked in it.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

I think Al Gore said he invented them right after he invented the Internet. Or maybe it was more recent than that.

Reply to
Chuck Taylor

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