LED bulbs

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The 4-foot ceiling mounted flourescent light above the kitchen sink would stop coming on reliably for a few months. I would leave the switch on and eventually it would come on some time later. I had changed the F40 tube before so thought perhaps it might be the ballast instead. Went to Lowes and bought a replacement LED 4-foot light for $35 minus coupons and replaced it this weekend.
The first thing I noticed was the old fixture's ballast was too hot to the touch after turning it off. Not sure if that is normal, but I didn't like the idea of it burning up and causing a fire. The next thing I noticed is how much brighter the LED light is compared to the old one. It is supposed to be equivalent to the old one but seems much brighter. I also bought an LED 40 watt equivalent bulb for my desk lamp and that one seems the same as the old one.
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On 9/28/2015 2:37 PM, badgolferman wrote:

It may not be "brighter" but may have a different color temperature giving the appearance of brighter. We prefer daylight bulbs for that reason.
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On 9/28/2015 2:37 PM, badgolferman wrote:

Wattage rating can be equivalent but K value could be higher with the LED which will make it appear brighter. Chances are you bought a 4500, 5000 or even a 6000k LED. That's what they call daylight bulb.
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On 9/28/2015 5:40 PM, Meanie wrote:

At church they have 3000K, 3500K and 4100K. I find the 3000 to be yellow. 4100 is blue white, and the 35 are in between. I find the 4100 looks business like, and the 3000 looks more homey.
- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus . www.lds.org . .
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I suspect the ballast was failing and the bulbs still had more life in them that you thought given that slow start symptom.
I want to use something that's got easily accessible screw in Edison-type bulbs with easy to remove diffusers. It seems that you can't do much better than $2 per 60W screw-in LED but that's a lot of bulbs compared to the cost of the tube type. The tube-type bulb doesn't eliminate the need for broad-arm futzing and rotating (which Arthur Itis dislikes), either. Plus, there's a ballast with every bulb. You can unscrew some in a multiple bulb fixture and lower the light level and many 60W LED screw-in bulbs are dimmable. I also don't know enough about the failure mode of tube light LEDs to be able to tell if the whole bulb craps out or it just loses lumens as individual LEDs burn out.

Those old 40W fluorescents shoplites were probably much brighter when they new.
I don't like the idea of the ballast heating up so much and wonder exactly how they are powering the bulbs from the impressive selection of ballasts out there. Ballasts and bulbs now come in a wide array of types (especially the energy-saving ones) and many combinations are incompatible. I am not as keen as I once was with using LED tubes in shoplights because of your reports and others. I wouldn't be surprised if you have ballast that's failing and about to fail completely. I suspect you're going to find out soon, especially if it's getting so hot that you can smell melting plastic. Soon follows the escape of the magic smoke and if you're lucky, it's accompanied by a loud pop. That's how one died. Another began putting out a 120kHz RF signal on the powerline that completely obliterated the X10 RF signals I use for home automation. Had to buy a Volpmeter to diagnose that very gnarly problem. Turned out the shoplight was plugged into an outlet that was connected to the circuit panel with just 10' of cable. From there the RFI went to the panel coupler and repeater and shut things down.
Some of the new LED bulbs I've purchased appear to effect the X-10 signal negatively but it's not so bad that it's unliveable. CFL's were the same way when the first hit the market and hopefully LED makers will follow suit and build them not to emit RFI in the X10 band or worse, filter out the X10 signal complete. The savings is worth having to install some filters or even reject some bulbs.
For now I am slowing down my switchover until all my CFLs die far short of their claimed lifespan. (-:
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Bobby G.



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On Monday, September 28, 2015 at 4:48:52 PM UTC-5, Robert Green wrote:

You can do better. Costco is now selling four-packs of 60W LED bulbs for $12.99 with a $10.00 instant rebate--cost of $1.00 per bulb.
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On 09/29/2015 12:22 AM, snipped-for-privacy@sbcglobal.net wrote:

At least where I live, the instant rebates on LED bulbs (and on CFL bulbs previously) have been from the utility company -- so the rebate you mention may not be available everywhere.
Perce
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wrote:

but that's a lot of bulbs compared to the cost

$12.99 with a $10.00 instant rebate--cost of $1.00 per bulb.
What brand/type/model? Do you remember?

Worse than that, you've probably been already charged $20 on your power bill in hidden fees that paid for the $10 rebate. (-: At least that's the way it works around here.
Since it's an instant rebate (I've had it with mail-ins), I might just go to Costco since $1 a bulb is quite a deal. Thanks!
I've had some early CFL experience that a suspicious person could conclude were merchants dumping batches of problem bulbs and a steep rebate really clears the deck of old stock. So I always wonder what the deal is.
But $1 per 60W of light really makes the long 40" tube (at the prices mentioned here recently) look bad in a price per lumen comparison.
The problem now is to find or fashion a fixture that can output light similar enough to a shoplite's to be useful and cost-effective. Of course, there's the issue of safety and code-worthiness I have not yet addressed in DIY lamp fixtures.
I also want to understand how these units are powered. The report of what seems to be serious overheating in a new product like this makes me want to wait until more long-term user reports appear.
Thanks for your input!
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Bobby G.



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but that's a lot of bulbs compared to the cost

$12.99 with a $10.00 instant rebate--cost of $1.00 per bulb.
How much is a Costco membership? I would have to have my neighbor take me and use their card (which I like to avoid) since I am not a member. That unfortunately has to figure into the total price as well. And as Perce pointed out, it could be a rebate sponsored by a local utility that I am not eligible for.
$2 a bulb is the lowest price I've seen for straight up purchases without rebates. That's still a lot more "light for the buck" than the 40" models. I suspect thost prices will drop considerably as more people adopt them.
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$55 per annum.
$110 per annum with 2% rebate, so if you spend $5000/year (one 70" flatscreen) you'll get your $110 back.

The $1-2/bulb cost is for A-19's, not F40T8's.
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for

me

not

flatscreen)

OK. That's good to know but my buying patterns don't align with CostCo's "mass quantities" orientation so I probably couldn't get my $ back. But I can get my neighbor to take me although I have to then factor in the value of a favor that needs repaying. I'll wait for the bulbs to drop in price and for the wattage of the $2 bulbs to go beyond 60W. There are some places that just need 75 or more watts to see clearly and safely. Besides, I have boxes of CFLs I bought when on sale that I have to burn through first, although I relegate them to places where the lights aren't on long (or in the cold basement or need dimming or can't run in some fixtures because of heat issues or don't come on quickly enough to safely illuminate the walking area).

models.

Sorry I wasn't clear. I was aware that the F40's are the $19 or so bulbs. I should have written: "Both form factors will probably drop considerably (especially the F-40s) when they come into wider use." Unless, of course, powering the F-40 LED bulbs from the wide array of ballasts out there turns out to be a better theoretical, rather than practical, solution. I am *very* worried about the report of a very hot ballast when used with the LED F-40s.
I expect that LEDs account for a tiny fraction of the light market at the moment. The cost to produce the screw-in type LED bulbs is certain to drop lower than the cheapest CFL because of the glassblowing step CFL's require. And I say "good riddens to mercury-laced, slow-starting rubbish" as they head towards their final roundup in landfills across the nation.
--
Bobby G.



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Costco membership is $55/yr ($110 for "executive")
However, there's a sneaky way aeound it.
Ask your neighbor (pay her back, of course), to pick up a bunch of ten dollar Costco "cash cards" (gift cards).
You can then tak one to the store and use it, without having a membership, to buy stuff. If it's over $10, you can pay the additional balance in cash..
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<stuff snipped>

Ah! News you can use! Thanks for the tip. Sweet!
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On 9/29/2015 9:04 AM, danny burstein wrote:

It's not sneaky. Costco wants you to do this. They even mention it as a way to allow your kids to shop at Costco without paying for another membership.
Personally I wish Costco would offer lower cost add-on memberships for adult children aged 17-25. This would help college students and other young people get into the habit of shopping at Costco without the hassle of the cash cards. My daughter goes to Costco often with the Costco cash cards. The city she goes to college in has no Target, no Walmart, and no Home Depot or Loews, but the Costco is very close to campus. Living on-campus there's not much need for Costco, but once you move off campus into a house with a lot of roommates, it becomes very useful.
Just the annual savings on gasoline offset the membership. Presently, in my area, Costco is about 30¢/gallon less than other places. For example, in Santa Clara, Costco is $2.48 while the next cheapest, Arco, is $2.69. But at Costco you get a 3%-4% rebate on your Costco Amex card. We'll see if the new Costco Visa card is as generous with gasoline rebates. In Northern California, both Arco and Costco gasoline come from the Shell refinery in Martinez, and it's "Top Tier" gasoline. Arco has the contract to supply Costco, but Arco has no refinery in Northern California and has an agreement with Shell to supply both Arco and Costco. In southern California, Shell gets its fuel from the Arco refinery.
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hmmm... I am amused by your insights and would like to subscribe to your newsletter
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As soon as the CFLs are sold/replaced.
I recall when Home Depot was selling 100W CFLs for at least $15 ea. The Ikea got 'em down to $4-$7 for 80W bulbs. Finally, I saw a 100W bulb for $3 at a Dollar Tree. Now they are 4 100W'rs fer < $10 at WW. The same will happen to LED bulbs.
nb
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Fluorescent bulbs (and LEDs) dim over time. You are comparing an old fluorescent bulb with a new LED. A fair test would be new to new.
Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
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On 9/28/2015 2:37 PM, badgolferman wrote:

Are these new bulbs drop in replacements? I've seen some LED 4' tubes (admittedly early ones), where the old ballast must be removed? The ballasts in 4' fixtures actually act as a step up transformer because the typical 120 volts is not enough to maintain the fluorescent arc. In Europe, the ballasts are the simple series kind, like we use for shorter tubes. I'd be curious how these LED bulbs run on straight 120. I wouldn't recommend that unless the manufacturer says so, but I am curious.
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Art Todesco wrote:

No, I bought an entirely new 4-foot fixture with one LED tube.
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On Tue, 29 Sep 2015 17:56:40 +0000 (UTC), "badgolferman"

In that case, it's probably not a ballast. LED dont need a ballast. But they do need electronics and there is likely a heat sink in there to dissipate the heat. However if it's too hot to touch, I'd take it back, because it's either defective or very poor quality, and will probably burn out soon if it's THAT HOT!
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