kitchen range wiring


I am in the middle of a kitchen remodel -- Original plans called for a single combo cooktop and oven (i.e. a range). I needed a 40 Amp circuit but had 6ga wire left over from the run to the HVAC so I ran this -- which means I can pull 60 Amps, if needed
So as things go we are changing the plans a bit and now we are looking at a separate cooktop and wall oven. NEC (Sec 220.19) talks about this and the math works out that I can consider the two units as one unit and even though the Oven (needing 30Amp circuit) and the cooktop (needing a 40Amp circuit) should do fine at 43 Amp -- lets say 50, which the 6ga wire will handle just fine.
Ok -- so the question is how to wire the two units to the one branch circuit ? I have heard that each load connected to a 240v line needs its own run back to the circuit panel -- but I cannot find the source of this 'rumor' -- in this case I want to run the two units off the same branch circuit
I figure there are two ways to go, one would be to simply wire them in parallel, the other would be so install a small sub panel (50 Amp) in the cabinet below the oven and then install two breakers, one to each appliance.
I believe this would be a common situation in kitchen remodels and as such there is a standard way to handle it
Cheers Eric
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I am in the middle of a kitchen remodel -- Original plans called for a single combo cooktop and oven (i.e. a range).&nbsp; I needed a 40 Amp circuit but had 6ga wire left over from the run to the HVAC so I ran this -- which means I can pull 60 Amps, if needed</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>So as things go we are changing the plans a bit and now we are looking at a separate cooktop and wall oven.&nbsp; NEC (Sec 220.19) talks about this and the math works out that I can consider the two units as one unit and even though the Oven (needing 30Amp circuit) and the cooktop (needing a 40Amp circuit) should do fine at 43 Amp -- lets say 50, which the 6ga wire will handle just fine.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ok -- so the question is how to wire the two units to the one branch circuit ?&nbsp; I have heard that each load connected to a 240v line needs its own run back to the circuit panel -- but I cannot find the source of this 'rumor' -- in this case I want to run the two units off the same branch circuit</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I figure there are two ways to go, one would be to simply wire them in parallel, the other would be so install a small sub panel (50 Amp) in the cabinet below the oven and then install two breakers, one&nbsp;to each appliance.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I believe this would be a common situation in kitchen remodels and as such there is a standard way to handle it </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Cheers</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Eric</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>219-19 also supports your thinking. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Depending on where you live the 6awg&nbsp;on the 75 degree table will either be 65-50 amps. Here we use the 75 degree table not the 90.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>As for common. I have been in the trade doing remodels and new constuction (30+ years)&nbsp;and have never seen 2&nbsp;cooking apppliances tied to the same circuit. Always a new circuit was pulled in.&nbsp; I would install a panel in the kitchen cabinets as a desperate last resort. You still would need to maintain&nbsp; height and working clearences for the panel. </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>Pretty hard to do if your installing it in a&nbsp; upper cabinet.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I believe I would install an new circuit for one of the appliances. Listening to the SO when everything has shut down during Thanksgiving dinner prep, well I will say in my home there would be hell to pay for a long time.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Best wishes on your remodel. check everything 3 times. It is rewarding when concluded.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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SamTheCat wrote:

Install a big junction box in the cabinet under the cooktop to tap the branch circuit for the oven. I'd probably use a 50A breaker; I think anything from 40A to 60A is appropriate.
Are these gonna be hardwired, or plug-and-cord-and-socket?
I'll see if I can find anything in my code book.
Bob
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zxcvbob wrote:

OK, this would be a 40A or 50A branch circuit, permitted by 210-23(c) to supply cooking appliances that are fastened in place. Forget what I said earlier about a 60A breaker unless you want a subpanel in your kitchen for some reason.
Best regards, Bob
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My last house had a junction box in the wall fed by 6-3 wire. There were then two smaller branches coming out of this box -- one to the cooktop and one to the oven. Even if the specific exemption for the range didn't exist, you could use the tap rules as long as the equipment is hard wired and the wires are installed in a raceway. Because you'll be using #10 wire (at least) for each unit, you have plently of margin to use the 10' tap rule. You going to need a large junction box though -- I'd go with the 4 5/8 square by 2" deep minimum.
-- Mark Kent, WA
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in
said
for
then two smaller branches

the specific exemption for

equipment is hard wired and the

least) for each unit, you

junction box though -- I'd

The 10 foot tap rule is for _feeders_. Tap rules should be used with caution. The circuit in question is a branch circuit. However, 210.19(A)((3) Exception No.1 does permit the OP to tap a 50 amp range circuit to supply ranges, wall-mounted electric ovens, and counter-mounted electric cooking units. The tap conductors must have an ampacity of no less than 20 amps and must be _sufficient_ for the load served. The taps must be no longer than necessary to service the appliance.
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branch
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source
in
each
as
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be
So I found 210.19 amd 210.23 and the "branch circuit rule" -- The box that I premounted (before drywall) was a 4 5/8 x 2" box -- wanted the extra room to work with the 6/3-- I was figuring on a second box mounted to the original one, now protruding from the wall and then runnning conduit (figured 3/4") to each appliance, max distance would be 5ft on each branch circuit. I have extra 6/3 and just figured I would use that to get from the junction box to the appliances -- sound about right ?
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I
to
have
to
Sounds OK. The "second box" should be a 4 11/16" extension ring, not a regular box.
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that
room
original
3/4")
Thanks ----
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